A conversation with Roosh V (Episode 413)

Listen to the abbreviated version below, then get the full audio version here!




what's up guys it's your man Donovan

sharp and welcome to the four hundred

and thirteenth edition of TSR live your

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you who have watched me over the years

knows that this is a hard and steadfast

rule on my show all right guys let's go

ahead and get right to it my guest

tonight is the founder of one of the

most influential websites on the

manosphere returning kings

he's written countless books like bang

de bang pussy paradise and freedom of

speech isn't free his latest book

entitled lady is now available for sale

and today is the last day to get a

discount he's been on dr. oz he's been

banned from entire countries he's even

been detained by foreign authorities for

having a black belt and women I think as

he described it I of course I'm talking

about Roush B Roush thanks a million for

making time for us tonight man we will

appreciate it hello Donovan it's great

to be here I feel like I'm on with the

old friend hahaha well listen um it's

speaking of old friend I actually have

written for you for quite some time he

actually started return of Kings I think

back in October of 2012 and I think my

first article with you was in somewhere

in the neighborhood of March of 14

somewhere like that yeah it feels like

such a long time ago when I started that

website didn't expect it to gain as much

traction as it did I think it read

pilled I mean I don't want to exaggerate

but hundreds of thousands of men you

know and it was when it was ongoing when

it was at its peak and I would say it

speak it when it hit its stride was

around 2000

and 14 when when you came on it was such

a pure thing it was there was no other

site like it and it was great to have

men like you contribute their

experiences and stories and knowledge I

mean that site wouldn't have been what

it was without men like you well I

appreciate you seeing that in you know

it's interesting those were like back in

2014 early 15 those to me were the glory

years because if you can remember I was

I was the guy that essentially replaced

Athlon McGinnis Ilana was a fucking

superstar he was the man he decided to I

guess I guess he decided to sort of move

away from returning Kings for whatever

reason I'm sure you and him are still

cool but when it was me you Matt Forney

the rest of the guys man that really

seemed that really seemed like the

golden years for attorney Kings yeah and

a lot of people wanted to give me credit

for doing that but really it was such an

organic thing yeah it's more like I was

funded and spent millions of dollars on

these articles like you see what the

media was it was such it was just men

who wanted to share you know and I

provided an outlet I didn't monitor them

edit them I mean most of the articles

you gave me I published it as is just

for a couple of grammar Corrections so

it was so for that brief moment of time

you know it was just such a open thing

but then they all good things come to

and and I think all those viral articles

actually hurt us in the end it brought a

weird element brought a lot of media

media attention in that 2016 Meetup

outrage in the beginning of the year

that was the beginning of the end that's

when the shutdown started happened yeah

I think then I discuss and all that yeah

so but when it was in its stride it was

great a lot of men I mean so far are

okay has been closed for about six

months now a lot of guys asked me when

are you gonna bring back I'm not it's

not coming back it was it existed in a

brief moment of time but bringing him

back down now is like beating up dead

dead horse it would have to be something

different something new but that site

existed and I wanted it to go out on top

a bit

did I did close it when it was starting

to get on the down swing but I am very

happy with the articles that went up I

think it served its course and it's

still online now so men can still check

out those articles yeah listen to me I

didn't know that the that the website

was not gonna be back was funny because

I was on I think the very next day and

I'm like no Roush is not shut down the

site you fuckers haven't won bla bla bla

bla bla but you're right I compare I

compare attorney Kings that I would say

that 18 month 18 to maybe 20 to 24 month

period it was like a comet it was like

Tiger Woods for ten years the world

loved Tiger Woods there was return of

Kings we I mean we were it like we were

the it guys we were the beacon of the

red pill but then you know I think it

was Matt for nice piece all you know

girls with tattoos and piercings are

damaged and then of course toothed Moses

broke the internet with 24 signs to

she's a slut but I agree with you I

think there's only so many articles you

can eight signs you can tell she's a

slut you know five ways to pick up girls

in Xyz City looks like you said in its

heyday it served its purpose just like

you said man all good things must come

to an end it was certainly good yeah I

mean I truly believe that if something

gets becomes like a drag you're trying

to relive something you're trying to

bring something back when it's costing

you more to bring something back I think

that's when you know that this or this

organic this this star is starting to

fade and everything in life has a time

on everything I mean even men who want

to chase girls there is a point in your

life when you're just so focused on it

and it's such a natural thing for you to

say go to the bar and hit on girls

approach some girls during the daytime

but then there's gonna be a point when

you get older yes now it's a drag now oh

I need to pump myself up a little bit

more it's the weekend it's 12 o'clock I

should be out but I'm still at home

watching YouTube I'm seeing that that's

when you know it's time to move on it's

time to know a lot of men they get too

attached to a lifestyle to website or

whatever a business you can't they can't

let go there try so now they're putting


to bring it back instead of energy

moving forward in something new so you

know this is how I approach things a lot

of people get upset at me when I close

this down or that down but you got to

move on in life is movement it's

constantly moving can't get attached I

remember you did I forget which episode

you did a podcast with quintus actually

wrote an article sort of based around

that I remember you said I actually

thought that I'd be 60 years old at the

mall asking girls where the pet shop is

and and I think at the time you were 35

or 36 she said I'm 30 some-odd years old

and I can barely stand the thought of a

club guys ask me all the time Donovan

you had a great time in Vegas you've had

all the success with women why have you

given it up listen guys grow out of this

stuff and there's only so many blondes

and you know brunettes and fake titty

bitches that you can fuck before it all

just only don't get me wrong like

nothing I don't know about you but

nothing is you know sticking your dick

in a new vagina that's always gonna be

great but it's getting to that point

that wears thin on a lot of guys and

that's why guys like you and me sort of

transition when people see that

transition see we told you that it was

no no life is evolution you grow up you

move on this is how life works

when I was young and I started game I

didn't see it as work it's really

actually if to go and pick up a girl get

her into bed it's a series of steps it's

a lot of steps yeah but when you're

starting it and you're really horny you

don't see it as steps going to the club

with your friends with a bar or hitting

on girls that's fun yeah that is the joy

even if you fail you're like bro I just

talked to the hottie and I almost got

her number it's it's a joy it's fun

that's how its pure so that that kind of

right attitude to the girl comes out but

then as you get all as as you do

anything a lot you start to see the

steps involved yeah not only that but

you start to desensitize yourself to the

reward so yeah your first couple of

bangs your first one-night stand your

first Club score right you you were on

cloud nine

it was amazing but then

you're getting up there in the notch

account yeah I kind of wish I slept well

that night instead of brought this home

you know why I can't wait till she

leaves I'm hungover so what happens is

the return on investment goes down you

see it as work you lose that natural

excitement towards it which is a which

is attractive in itself sure you women

and then that's when you know hey I had

my fun of course we still game I can't

speak for you but I still game but it

has to be I have to be feeling social

has to some the girl has to be some kind

of sign yeah it has to be it's now it's

a once a week I feel inspired but not 10

approaches every night oh no dude like

I'm long I did it I did an article and a

episode called building a harem is a

full-time job it was great fun but when

it when you feel like you have to punch

a time clock that's when you feel like

it's it's time to go

so Roose you're considered to be one of

the godfathers of the manosphere one of

the three r's one of the founding

fathers and all that now a lot of

creators like myself you know I've got

an origin story about how we found the

red pill or whatever or whatever the

case may be

as someone who is widely considered to

be one of the founders of the red pill

what was the event or the events that

led you to what is now called the red

pill was it a girl was it girls I mean

what happened it was basically I mean I

wanted to get laid I couldn't but really

if I looked at from a biological

standpoint I was a late bloomer I didn't

go through puberty till I was 18 years

old so I was 1718 I look like I was 12 I

remember I was driving I was 18 people

looked at me like I was some kid that

stole his parents car I didn't have this

beard I look like a boy so all these

other guys my age are getting girls I

didn't really have that sexual vibe yeah

I didn't go through that yet so then I

was late so all these guys 18 already

have some experiences dating kisses I

had nothing so then I had to play this

ketchup game I didn't have the

confidence of these earlier

experiences right so for me I had to

learn it in a manual way this is when I

discovered the P way Camino was 21 and I

started to implement it slowly at but

it's after I graduated from college I

was around 22 I was a virgin still and I

really dived in the game and thank God

it worked it worked game worked yeah and

that's I would say that's the moment my

biology put me into that because if I

was a younger man if I went through

puberty at a normal age thirteen or

fourteen I don't know how older I don't

think I would have that so then learning

about game it started to hit me that hey

women and men are definitely different

it's not what I was taught in school and

one door opened after the next and

that's how I got here okay now talk to

me specifically about return of Kings

are okay is obviously you know it's it

is probably was one of the most visited

websites in the manosphere and in my

mind it's return of Kings is your magnum

opus to the web it's it's it's it's your

legacy now you started it back in 2012

and you know it's it's easily one of the

most recognizable blogs in this sector

the web what gave you the idea to start

that website of course Russia in the

roush before him you're a virgin out of

college you learn how to pick up girls

what what inspired you to say hey you

know what I need to put this on the


so I started to blog back in 2001 or two

and then that was going well so it was

at DC bachelor com first it was mostly a

deep Washington DC local blog I was

connected to a female socialite at that

time and she gave me the first you know

hits so I was known locally then I

changed my name the blog name to Roush

be calm I was doing the blog and then I

read a biography on Alexander the Great

I was in Ukraine and that inspired me in

an egotistical way like I want to leave

my mark I want to be a legend this is

when I was still my ego was very strong

I was really high I felt more like a man

with every hottie I banged and so on so

I wanted to leave them more I wanted to

I wanted size something bigger

that would make a big impact I want to

empower influence you know it was this

kind of thinking hence you get that name

return the Kings it says it all doesn't

it and so I wanted something bigger than

a personal blog and I made it and it it

did well every viral episode oh yes

we're getting bigger and better and so

that's where it started it's mostly the

ego game it wasn't so much the money

gained I mean this site did makes some

money it could fund itself it could fund

the writers but I did it because of the

ego and so this is when my ego was at

its peak you know it's interesting that

you say that there's so love so many of

our detractors love to say Donovan

you're doing X Y Z because of ego right

and I've never backed away from that

like listen man my my girlfriend's hot

she's attractive you know she's got a

porn star buddy and I like showing it

off I show it off all over the internet

blah blah blah blah blah and guys

constantly come at me you're doing this

you know for for self-love a self

gratification but I'm like yeah yeah

listen like this is I'm at this stage of

my life yes I am reg if you have a

problem with that you can go fuck

yourself let me ask you this did you

ever imagine I mean really think about

it did you ever imagine that you would

be this these you ever imagine that you

would gain this much notoriety and

really for better or worse become the

most infinite one of the most infamous

people on the wet in the world really

you know it never really hit me I mean

there was I actually wanted to be known

as a writer I wanted to do bookstore

signings this is after I wrote my second

book it was a travel book a dead bat in

Paraguay yeah I want to be like a writer

like a standard with the glasses and the

blazer going to book stores and signing

I wanted to be a normal dude I didn't

want to be this in this infamous guy so

I kind of what I did see myself in a

normal Fame like a writer's type of Fame

but that wasn't in the cards for me I

was just too useful for the

establishment is to say see how there's

toxic men who hate women and take

advantage and

them and blah blah blah I was such a

useful idiot in an accidental way just

by me having fun and so I got used in

that way but I always I always trying to

harness what life gives me I can't

control what other people say about me I

mean you can try to sue anyone who says

bad things about you on the internet but

you'll find that's a very costly way of

trying to control oh yes I just decided

to go with it yeah I guess I can't

change it so I'm not gonna blackhat

right exactly how can I use the

attention they're giving me to at least

maintain a living - at least filter all

that attention into a constructive way

to connect men who find some value in

what I do that can direct them to my

blog or my forum or my youtube channel

so that's what I did I just kind of used

what life gives me and that's that's the

way it is I mean yeah I don't like being

known as a monster I mean I don't like

it when people people think I genuinely

rape that I genuinely hurt women there

are people out there who think this but

I can't I can't control that I can't

control it you know so I just go with it

and thankfully there is still a lot of

people who know what the truth is people

who are ready to go to the source

articles of source books and read it for

themselves yeah you know it's it's

interesting that you bring that up the

whole rape should be legal on public

property fiasco well dude I will never

forget the the press conference that you

did yeah you yeah the bodyguards in the

back yet the feminist reporters and

everything it looked like it looked like

you were and I listened I don't know I

can't tell us you were feeling but but

it looked like you were frustrated by

the fact that they were disingenuously

sort of turning this into who ruch wants

us to rape people

ruch is an advocate of rape talk to me

about the whole you know rape should be

legal on public property fiasco because

to me that was probably one of the

turning points that was one of the main

turning points for return of kings and

ultimately you know ultimately led to

you shutting down the meetup back in


yes so I I wrote that article I believe

it was around six to eight months before

and I knew what I was doing

I knew this now I thought okay this is

gonna get a lot of angry comments but I

knew what I was doing as a writer you

play with people's emotions to get a

reaction I'm an expert at there but I've

been going for years and years and years

I know what I'm doing

but you have to be careful when you do

that because you you cannot control that

other people may amplify may distort

what you're saying to further their own

ends so like I mentioned earlier there

are people who need evidence that men

are bad to push their anti masculinity

agenda and I gave them a beautiful

article that if you take in the literal

sense which is absurd if you take in the

literal sense it shocked millions of

people but what I was just trying to

show the only point I was trying to make

is that women can do a better job

keeping themselves safe and I use this

elaborate experiment thought experiment

unfortunately that article gave my

enemies so much ammunition that really

hurt me I mean it genuinely hurt me it

hurt returning Kings it was when the

okay so then we so then eight months

after that article I decided to do happy

hours and I think was a hundred fifty


I put meeting locations yeah online it

was mostly centered on from returning

Kings I did that and I didn't do it in

terms of creating like a army a rape

army or something

Jesus Christ I just wanted happy hours

that's it you know I've done happy hours

there they're fun they're fun we don't

rape people at a PR and then the media

in all the cities all the countries that

these meetups were going on all adopted

the same narrative Pro rape guru

organizing meetups that are going to

hurt women prowl for women at first it

was a joke at first I was like this is

silly you know if it actually came out

of Australia first and I made some jokes

I'm gonna come oh yes I remember that

was that was funny

but then it got serious quickly then my

family got doxxed

oublie on facebook which of course

allowed that data Docs 1 million people

saw my dad's address hi

we started getting I saw I got so many

emails threats with the address I'm

gonna burn your house down

burn burn your families down up your

family's house down the media started

coming at the door I was staying with my

I always stay with my family whenever I

come to the US the media start to come

in I got messages from federal agencies

saying if you do this happy out because

apparently at some of the happy hours

were on federal land like a park right

getting emails from them saying if you

do this we're going to enforce laws

while I was holy shit I was getting so

many emails so many tweets calls my

dad's house anyway

it was a it was such an avalanche it put

me in for I would say the first time in

my life a genuine fear genuine fear that

my family was going to get to get killed

because of what I did right at the time

my sister was sick she was going through

chemo I was like what have I done

I brought such danger to my family not

on purpose of Carlos but you can but a

lot of people argued Rolo he argued that

I knew what I was doing on purpose I

wanted this and we had a beef we still

have have a beef but anyway so I said

fuck what did I do

I so I cancelled the meetups to get that

heat low I hired bodyguard armed

bodyguards 24 hours a day I spent a lot

on this yeah and I but when you cancel

it the heat it didn't go go down cuz now

they sense weakness they're like yeah we

had God so now I would say for the first

five days I was in bad shape I couldn't

eat I couldn't sleep I was tense it was

like you I had five cups of coffee and

you're in that jittery sense but you're

but you're really

in fear too this is how how it was then

the press conference this was on day 7

of when the outrage started so I was

beginning to calm down I wasn't scared

as much now but I was really angry I was

angry that the media journalists there

they created this false narrative that

put my family in stress that could have

gotten them easily easily hurt so that's

where that tone comes from I was mad

yeah I think this is the very first time

I've ever heard you talk about your your

your genuine your anyway in fear I

didn't realize it that it had gotten to

I mean obviously the press conference

than everything that speaks for itself

but I didn't I didn't under I didn't

realize at the time just how much fear

that was in there of course your sister

going through chemo your dad getting

Docs and I mean the thing is is guys who

talk about what we talk about we are we

are often the targets of daxing you know

a lot of us like myself you know I've

got to you know I've got to use a

pseudonym to protect myself in my family

because people are fucking crazy but you

don't operate under a pseudonym I

remember when you and I had the

conversation about changing from

Sharpshooter to what is now Donovan

sharp in essence but but you you're

still using your real name so ok so post

you know post Meetup cancellation how do

you deal with the I guess with the

infamy how do you deal with the constant

daxing attempts of yourself and your

family are there and you don't have to

give me anything proprietary but you

deal it I mean what it is if even though

the address is technically out there

there needs to be a mob if there's no

mob I mean people are scared people only

you know people want to hurt others they

what they want to operate in the safety

of the mob they want to get that courage

Oh everyone else is attacking him too

but now let's say you're if you're if a

lone operator puts your address out

there I wouldn't worry and apparently if

you're on the right or doing mass

masculinity content the odds of getting

docks is very high yes so just if alone

idiot docks is you that's not going to

really hurt you but if at the same time

you get docks there's this media outrage

that is flooding you

with emails and calls that's when you

have to take some kind of care you know

but other than that yeah you are out

there and that was a lesson and talking

about the the fear I haven't really

talked about that yeah that was such a

lesson for me on what genuine fear feels

like because people think they're in

feel but really they're in more of the

general anxiety where they're like

something could go wrong I may lose my

job or I lost my job I could go broke

that's more of a generalized anxiety I

felt a lot of people but the fear this

acute fear that how it changes how your

body food tasted different I couldn't

taste might yeah it was something

different and but I myself hey Roush

you're one of the few men who have kind

of felt this with who have gone through

this use it use it like you've used

everything else I mean don't get this

mob back on your door try not to use it

man this is a part of life

you're you're gonna get bruised or gonna

fall down use it as much as you as as

you can and I can say say this that kind

of fear it told me what really is a

threat and what is not so a lot of

things people think are threats now I

just laugh at it you know cuz I went

through that and we live in a culture

where people will get outraged for the

smallest thing it's because they haven't

experienced genuine threats they have an

experience genuine fear so they're going

apeshit over things that really don't

matter that are not a threat

yeah the physical changes it's

interesting that you say that the

physical changes that your body went

through when you Jenni when you

genuinely had fear for your for your

physical safety to me that sounds like

and I can't speak for you but that

sounds to me like a breakup with a girl

like back before I found the red pill if

I had a breakup with a girl or I was

hurt yeah who didn't face the same I

couldn't eat I was always jittery it's

kind of like that and to me that was

that was the worst feeling in the world

by the way rue some sort of name

dropping here illimitable man just shot

me a text message he told me to tell you

hey so I am says I and he means I think

I've he's

not sure does he have a blog or he is

okay I'll give him a high right right

back one thing now starting in 2015

life got for me very very hard the

lectures that's when I couldn't Canada

yeah that was hard then the men about

rage in 2016 my sister was sick then I

had a breakup in 2017 I was in love in

love first time at a weight not the

great rush and I was in love with this

girl okay I loved her I thought this was

gonna go all the way then long story

short I found some shit she was doing

that I was I I couldn't go on I had to

dump her but I was I was in a lot of

pain I was in six months you know what

it's a different kind of pain now this

was a this was a general sadness like a

grief like M am I going to recover type

of thing so this was different than than

the fear that I had first this was you

know I wasn't crying at night it wasn't

that kind of grief but it was like man

you know I'm never it was kinda I'm

never gonna find a good girl again it

was kind of that that took six months

the funny story

is she found a dude one month after she

grieve she's hit that whole grieving

process Rouge are the sheeple woman are

you telling me she branched along on you

is that what you're telling the audience

and yeah but but but I'm very happy I

didn't meet a girl for more than sex

during that all right time cuz I really

believe you have to process your

emotions and feelings in a a healthy way

I'm not saying cry to everyone but on

your own understand what just happened

why did this happen and accept it and

let those emotions flow I'm glad because

now I feel really good I don't feel like

I need to jump in you know right now

area for girl it's not of quality I'm

not gonna die so then yeah I mean I've

been you know I can do my life change

people say hey Russia

everything is is great but I'll be

honest to you man I am emotionally in a

messed up place because my sister died

Yeah right it's been a year in in public

I can give a good front sure you know

but it's but the second that the cameras

go off the second and there's no one to

talk to that I'm done browsing on the

internet there's some things that you

have to deal with and no one can

actually help you so you know I don't a

lot of people say oh when something bad

happens to you you have to learn from it

makes you better hey when you suffer a

death in the family I don't want to

learn anything from that but the life

gave it to you and you have to go on so

that's what I try to do just go on and

the more difficulty you have in your

life you know the I hate to say but you

get you become a stronger person I mean

I don't want to be strong I wish I was a

happy-go-lucky dude just trying to get

laid yeah but there's a price for that


you understand what I mean like there's

a price there there's a price that comes

with that mental strength that comes

from the strife and listen for some of

it is good some of it not so good that's

just kind of how it is and it's it's

it's really good that you told that

story because a lot of our a lot of our

detractors and fans they tend to think

that we are invincible

Donovan's sharp red pill super star

ironclad rock-solid frame there is Roush

you know you know one of the three hours

of the manosphere dr. oz the whole bit

but here you are telling me hey listen

dude like I got my you know I had a I

had a bad breakup we're men like we have

we have emotions we fall in and out of

love just like every other guy out there

red pill aware or not so it's good for

people and that's the way I'd like to

connect with my audience I talk more

about my failures than my successes just

so that guys know and understand hey

listen I'm a real person I'm not just

some not some caricature I'm the same

now me personally I'm the same off the

camera as I am on the camera but the

fact of the matter is is that we still

have feelings and emotions we go through

the same feelings and emotions as your

average I guess quote-unquote everyday

non youtube content creators and this is

why I think there's a over compensation

on the physical body on the strength

because that's a little bit easy to do

in the sense of you go to the gym you

follow the program you eat this food and

you get big and all from the outside in

this guy is strong this guy is big he

can fight but let's be honest you can be

jacked but have the mental strength of a

young young boy if you see me in person

I'm tall but I'm not physically imposing

I don't look like I can crack your brain

skull but the mental strength that in

the modern world when you're not

fighting with swords and shields that

counts for a lot because as you see the

mental world is going crazy people are

attacking people are shutting people

down you need the mental strength first

I'll be honest I've been going I've been

doing gym stuff I do a light

calisthenics now I never really had to

use it in real life outside of a couple

of shoving matches a fight here or there

but I haven't had to use it but the

mental strength you use every day every

single day so I'm not saying I listen

now I know people going to say ruch says

don't go excuse me I'm not saying that

but this overcompensation over

dependency on it I think you listen you

can only if you focus too much on the

body you get tired then you can't focus

on the mind so there has to be some some

kind of balance so when I see a guy

that's really jacked I think that's

great he put a lot of work into that but

who's the man inside that after the

muscle fiber after you go through the

layers of that who's the man inside and

in this age I think that's counting for

a little bit more than only the physical

strength that makes sense you're

listening City 413 edition of TS are

alive with special guests Rouge V you

can follow him on twitter at ruse V just

like it sounded spelled and you can get

his latest book lady on Rouge be calm

but like I said earlier today is the

last day to get a discount on that book

let's uh let's let's lighten the mood a

little bit talk to me a little bit about

your dr. Oz Show appearance it was

listen it was obviously an ambush and

and I remember I remember the fat lady

who got up and told you well I have

personal trainer and it would have been

so it would have been it would have been

great of you to ask her at that very

moment well what's their name right

because obviously she'd have a personal

trainer she's a fucking fat ass and I

remember you saying you didn't expect to

be ambushed but tell me about that

experience and how that either helped or

hurt you so I was invited by a producer

of dr. oz saying we have a panel that we

want you to be on about fat shaming so I

was like are you gonna pay for that I

was in Eastern Europe they pay for a

private car to pick me up take me to the

airport fly me over hotels like hell

yeah that's a free free trip I went

there and then when they when I was

about to go on they played a segment

about me with like very dark shadows and

say he's a Nazi yeah I mean listen you

can get on me for being unprepared

that's fine but I just didn't expect

that you know and they and they buttered

me up in the makeup room giving me free

snacks saying Oh Roush it's gonna be

great and then I was like Oh see I

didn't know what I couldn't couldn't do

could I stand up and yell throw chairs I

didn't know I was like shit I'm kind of

screwed I try to keep it together as

much as I could now a lot of people say

I did alright that's fine but by my

standards which are high I didn't do

well I know I can do better than that

people who know me know I can do better

than that

I got basically yelled at by four

fatties and I didn't have any really

solid comebacks dr. oz yelled at me I

didn't have any good comebacks I was in

there in their frame they were asking me

questions I was obedient in providing

with answers that was wrong anyway did

it help her hurt me my ego

that's I think that's when my ego

started to like die you know it was uh I

was embarrassed a bit but people who

like me they like me because they know

me not because of how I do on dr. oz I

hate to say it but it actually helped me


as more people learn about me in this

age bad attention still gets you viewers

and I hate that because you can do

something really stupid be a clown and

still get people coming to you you know

we don't value good anymore we just

value the outrageous the drama fashion

yeah no absolutely I remember watching

the I remember watching the the doctor

or at the dr. oz thing I kept I kept

calling it dr. Phil for whatever reason

and I remember thinking okay return of

Kings is gonna get a huge bump for no

other reason but that you're on with dr.

Oz and I remember thinking to myself it

almost looked like it was scripted

ruch but the only person who didn't have

this knew it was what it was it was

weird as like everybody is like okay

they picked four or five different like

they all knew their lines and I'm like

well what why isn't Russia

why isn't he paying attention like was

he not giving the script before head but

now okay so look at how I didn't do that

well in dr. Oz and look at the press

conference I did a couple years later I

had to have that dr. Oz experience it

was essential for me to do better when

it mattered dr. oz is an entertainment

program sure doesn't matter there was no

stake at all but the press conference

really you know killing that mob

hysteria yeah in such a good way that is

where it counts so I believe you know

someone someone once told me that God

doesn't give you a challenge that you

cannot handle so I could handle that dr.

oz I could handle the media outrage I'm

handling and somehow someway everything

that has ever happened to me and as I

get closer to 40 years of age I've

survived everything everything that life

has thrown at me somehow I mean I'm

battered and bruised I'll be honest I'm

not as purely joyful as I was when I was

21 but I've survived everything

everything so why am I gonna worry now

about this problem this problem or that

problem Amazon they shut me down

I was upset for one day right one day

then the second day like hey rush this

is in the grand scheme of things this is

small get over it buddy and I did and

every other problem until there's gonna

be one problem that we cannot solve and

then we are done and that's it call it a

life right right yeah talk to me about

the Amazon thing right because I've

actually I mean I've been on Amazon I've

seen a couple of your books am I seeing

wrong or what happened there so on

Amazon I had 18 books total 18 yes I've

written I've written 20 books now and

what happened was game came out then a

couple days after game came out they

banned a couple of my minor titles right

that's kind of weird so they banned two

of them and a couple days after that

they banned three more so five total and

like something's going on here and then

when game was in its stride it was like

the third day of sales or something I

get the email game is banned so in all

they ban nine of the books so that's why

you still see some okay Amazon now

including baying and a bang which is

weird but so Amazon bandit they won't

change their mind I mean Jeff bozo we a

lot of my readers sent him sent him

directly complaints and emails nothing

happened and now my new book comes out

four girls

Amazon say yeah we can ship this book in

two months like what Amazon is Cobb

blocking me and and they can go to hell

I don't care because now all the money

that you spend on Amazon today goes to

Jeff bozos divorce settlement okay you

know and this time I have my own site

where I sell the paperback now and it

took a lot of work to set this up a lot

of work on on the back end you know but

it works it works and I hate that I'm

spending more time on the business side

like setting up the store than I am

writing but what else am I going to to

do you gotta adapt the problems it's

almost like what happened with return of

Kings I remember you specifically saying

that hey

like you know being on returning Kings

you know you know editing the material

that used like that used to be fun but

now most of your time has taken you know

editing all of the articles and when

something doesn't when something is not

fun anymore you just don't want to do it

anymore when it when it feels like a job

it's just like daygame when when when

you're going to the club with your

buddies you're you know hitting the

Vegas strip to you know hit on the you

know hit on the plane full of hotties

that just landed here from you know

whatever country they're at yeah it's

all well and it's all well and good but

when it starts to become a job that's

when it becomes a crime and you

certainly you certainly you certainly

have to take that into into account and

the one thing I've learned in life is

that everything in the material world

that we are a part of any pleasure hobby

satisfactions from food caffeine alcohol

women money status prestige all these

things you get tired of it

everything in life in the material world

you're gonna get bored of it right and

then one thing I mean what most people


they gotta increase the dose yeah oh you

know that I need more cause more money

more alcohol more coffee all this stuff

but you adapt to that you know humans we

adapt there's nothing in the material

world that can give you lasting

satisfaction nothing I've I can adapt to

everything I'm living in a shithole

right now it stinks I'm only here for

one month it sucks but I've adapted to

it I can adapt to anything this is why

we have to really be careful about what

goals we set you're setting a goal that

you're gonna get tired of you're setting

a goal that you're gonna get bored of

that you're going to want to move on

from so now at least I'm I do things

with the understanding of this that that

kind of helps but you know I hate to get

soft on you guys but the only thing that

really transcends the physical world

transcends the material world is love

love for me is the closest we get to our

spiritual core without being a Buddha

and becoming enlightened right love is

something that we're all capable of and

I'm not saying go love the next girl but

we already have mothers and fathers

brothers and sisters even a dog

think a love between a man and dog

actually means a lot more than bangin

hoes then or then going to the gym to

puff your body up and looking in the

mirror you feel good for a moment but it

doesn't last yeah everything everything

does seem to be fleeting in terms of in

terms of material possessions nine one

four two oh five five three five six is

the number to call let's go to the phone

line area code eight six zero you're on

live with Donovan and Roush go ahead hey

what's going on guys gonna hear me

messed up nope you're good

amen hey just wanted to say guys loved

the show Donovan I've been following

your stuff out for about two weeks great

stuff ruch have your book game excellent

I listened to it on audible and when you

talk about a certain thing then you have

a straight voice he's like I was always


merkon in space but uh man I just wanted

to talk real quick with you guys about

you guys are a little older and I know

Roush alluded to this in his book but I

find it interesting how social media and

phones that pretty much made the

modern-day woman like terrible dude like

it is so hard like you know it is it is

so difficult nowadays to pick up that

it's like ridiculous I mean you got to

have like amazing game nowadays and

social calibration to be able to attract

an average woman that's like above six

you know what I mean it's extremely

competitive in the sexual marketplace

now and I feel sorry for like my friends

when I advise them on like what to do

and like for the blue pill guys it's

just it's terrible man but you know it

is what it is but a game definitely

brought some attention to that which was

great I know Donovan you talked about it

- about how fucking a phone I'm here on

Redman groove on bitch their box of

dicks which I find hilarious but now man

just wanted to give you guys a big up

and keep doing what you're doing great

stuff man yeah thanks for the call yeah

Russia brings up a very an interesting

point or a point that's accurate yeah

listen the smart phone to me that was

the nail in the coffin because we have

apps women girls whatever have a device

that can summon a dozen cocks to their

exact location with a few swipes and a

few taps and that has aided in the utter


of the American woman what are your

thoughts on that it is getting very hard

it is getting so hard that I completely

understand all these offshoot men's

communities that are like Dhoni

don't even try you know I don't like

their I don't like their attitude of

trying to stop other men from trying as

well but the point is it's getting so

hard that sometimes not trying at all

seems to be a logical option but you

know if you use game it you will get

more than you're getting now but the

question is is the reward worth it based

on the work that I put in for guys who

are young you gotta try it at least try

for a couple of years you don't got you

don't have anything else to do anyway

right so try for a couple years you know

do your one approach everyday just try

it isn't going to kill you it's not

going to drain you you're in this horny

period anyway your hormones are going it

isn't an art you do that be smart about

it try to improve your look try it see

what you can get but I mean one thing is

that I learned that men have to be a

little bit higher on the one-to-ten

scale if they want to implement a game

program game is not for guys who are a

one out of a ten for two out of a 10

okay it's not for that I think for a guy

to start game today he has to be at

least a four and maybe some gym work can

get him up to a five five and style work

if you're below a four game isn't gonna

do much for you I mean what is it gonna

do unless you like bangin girls that are

a 1 - yeah I mean right really I mean

listen I started game with guys that

were already social there they weren't

social retards you know I mean and I

don't mean that in a negative way some

men really have Asperger's autism

these are serious problems that prevent

them from conversing right we were you

know somewhat good-looking dudes I

wouldn't give myself lower than a 6 yeah


so it's really gain was this social

refinement to harness your existing

social ability in a way to pick up girls

but now we have guys with no social

ability nothing no social sense and is a

one game book gonna help them I mean you

got to start before their how to talk to

people how to converse how to walk in a

normal way you know how to maintain eye

contact so unfortunately we're seeing

guys at the same time women are becoming

except obsessed on Instagram we're

seeing guys that are starting from a

level that is very low so if you're a

guy that's a five out of ten a six out

of ten you're like you're not bad some

girls give you some looks but they're

ugly that's a start but there's other

guys they get nothing and game is not

going to help them what are your

thoughts you mentioned that there are

some guys who just opt out or give up

these are guys who like to call

themselves MIG towels or men going their

own way what are your thoughts because

I'm very hard on on some of the MiG

towels not all MIG towels are created

equal we have we have this small group

of what I of what I like to call low

level MIG towels what these guys are is

they're in cells who call themselves MIG

towels too they would have us believe

that they could go out and get women but

the juice isn't worth the squeeze so

they don't they sort of check out what

are your thoughts on men who say you

know what fuck it the juice isn't worth

the squeeze I'm not gonna go holler at

girls too much risk I can get sperm jack

wallet out of my ass and all this other

kind of stuff what do you say to guys

who are who really are fearful of just

approaching women you know that is a

personal choice that they have to make

but the thing is a lot of these guys who

have the most fear haven't done any game

yeah they read a story online and

they're using that as justification

listen if you actually I know guys who

have been in trouble who have been

kicked out of places

girls called the cops on them false rape

accusations they're in the game still

and you have guys that have never had a

bad encounter and they're using that

excuse but really you can divide these

groups based on the existing their

existing socio-sexual scale like the in

cells and the men's rights guys they're

the zero to the two out of ten yeah

the make towels are like the three to

the sixes sometimes you get a seven so

the three to the six the pig the PUA and

the red pill guys are like the five to

the eights right so I mean based on your

existing ability to get attraction from

a girl it's gonna pick where you go so

usually the red pill guys like the

people who come to my you know happy

hours there a lot of those guys aren't

bad they're not you know dorks some of

these guys are good-looking dudes tall

dude some are a little bit older they've

had their fun but they're not that

awkward every okay if I do a happy hour

with 50 dudes yeah one or two of the

dudes are gonna be a little bit weird

right right yes that's fine but it's

allow these guys are pretty are pretty

cool dudes so I can hang out with them I

have made friends with a lot of these

guys they're normal guys so that's how

you know where a guy is going to fall

within these online men's groups very

good 911 for two oh five five three five

six is there a call if you want to get

on the show

area code three four seven you're on

live with Donovan and Roush go ahead hey

diamond am I on you were on hey guys I

just wanted to say a ruse I haven't read

any of your books yet but I did see your

lot a few months ago talking about how

game has changed

getting a lot harder basically that back

back then maybe about eight or so years

ago it was a lot easier to attract the

woman can you kind of go into more

detail about that as to why you think

that's the case in 2019 good question I

would say that okay the two main factors

in the United States for me was the

introduction of table service in the

night clubs risk it used to be you go to

a club a bar it was about you know

flirting sure it was about look dancing

with new man you know you go up to a

girl you grab her hand

and you go in dance but now girls were

zoned off zoned off in the tables the

velvet rope this VIP type of field now

it became a tiered class system and the

girls got the idea that hey these men

are so thirsty that they will relieve

our thirst for free alcohol so then

girls started flirting with the table

service guys and you as a loan guy now

it's getting harder and so that's what

that's when it started to go a little

bit down but it was still not not that

bad but then the smartphone there it is

destroyed everything the smartphone

destroyed everything not only in the

United States but everywhere else now

girls have this especially as Facebook

got popular Instagram got popular

tinder was the big mom the big bomb that

really fucked everything up but now

these girls are have non-stop

entertainment on their phone

lot of cock on their phone who are you

what you I mean she she feels like she

has unlimited options of men who want to

please her and you're you're okay dude

but this there's no of there's none of

the fantasy of I have a lot of guys on

me so combine the table service then you

got the smartphone and to clean this

operation up was the rise of the social

justice movement that really attacked

any displays of masculinity that man you

know shouldn't be confident that men are

harassing women in the streets and the

bars and then encouraging women to you

know get blue hair get tattoos and

they're getting fatter because the

obesity epidemic and the u.s. is still

growing so I mean that you know we can

talk about we can talk about this alone

for hours but I would say these factors

really made it bad so now we're in 2019

you go to a bar club one you don't even

see good-looking girls you see a couple

they are with their friends they're on

their phone it's they're blocked

what are you gonna do right yeah it's

it's incredibly difficult and I think it

was you who had mentioned it in one of

your blog posts that girls like you used

to be able to go to the bar to pick up

girls but now girls are you green bars

to meet up with their tinder matches so

if you go and approach a girl I mean

she's already listened girls already

have that built-in abundance as it is

but if you go to a bar and a girl is on

her phone she's waiting for her you know

whatever guys she swiped right to show

up if you're the shiny new cock he could

pick her up a chances are you probably

won't because she's waiting up we she's

waiting on somebody already yeah I mean

for a man to pick up a girl to meet a

girl she has to have the idea that I

want to meet a guy there has to be that

openness there I mean it's like you even

a guy if you're on the way to a date

you're on the way to meet a girl are you

gonna be looking at other girls checking

them out ready to talk to him no you

already are on the way so when a girl

has all these contacts in her phone that

are trying to meet up with her tonight

how open is she gonna be to you not very

open so this is why you get this you go

up to girls and they're kind of nice but

you feel there's that body language pull

away from you in tour and towards her

phone where all her social interactions

now take place which make them almost

impossible to talk to

face-to-face when you finally meet them

all right let's get a little

controversial here let's talk about the

Redman group for a little bit obviously

you know I'm on RMG every week oh pardon

me um oh wait a minute hold on give me a

second I thought I saw a comment in here

where somebody asks you okay all of your

your questions take precedent phone

calls or second precedent I didn't mean

for the for the interruption for the

interruption there anyway um those guys

obviously they're good friends of mine

but I'm also cool with you you and I

have never had a problem so I'm sort of

stuck in the middle here I don't even

think it's a thing but that said what is

your response to some of the criticism

that comes your way from guys on red now

I'm not sure is it called the red man

group or the Knitting gossip circle

but one should use bitching about what

bitching about me cuz well I don't give

them attention I don't give them the

recognition that they want because I

shared an idea I mean people say hey

Roush the Redman group talked about you

today and I go and there's a bunch of

dudes talking about me gossiping about

me that's not a very masculine thing I

think some of these dudes they got

issues they have issues they feel

inferior in some way I'm smarter than

Roush I should be bigger than Roush is I

am The Godfather or the originator of

this you know I'm not I don't give a

shit okay you are the Godfather of this

pile of crap go ahead take it you know

now I have nothing against you and I

would support you in whatever group I do

think that having platforms like the

Redman group is important for men but

the individuals who are gossiping about

me men I don't know I've never met I've

never talked about is a really feminine

bitch-ass move well speaking of which a

lot of guys on my end I'm a black man

right and so on the black side of the

manosphere black you too black


I catch a dude I caught a lot of heat

for writing for you for return of kings

oh you wrote for the white man you're

this or that and the other what kind of

what kind of criticism do you get from

your white viewers or your white

followers on return of Kings for letting

a guy like myself or Athlon right on the

site for an extended period of time I

get attacked by just about every group

the white man attacks me cuz I'm

technically not white she's a sand and

word loose just wants to sleep with

beautiful Eastern European white women

exactly and then the black people I mean

I don't get a lot of hate from black

people but some of them say that Roush

pushes the white stuff I mean listen I'm

kind of honest in what I see I believe

that there is an agenda to hurt white

people and blacks are being used by the

Democratic Party as

useful idiots to attack right so I'm not

saying that blacks are bad I don't get

into that racial IQ crime stuff that a

lot of the alt-right does I don't really

care about that but yeah I get attacked

from every group because every group is

trying to use me to further their own

platform their own interests I don't all

the time Roush talked about this can you

talk about this like they want to use me

to push their own ideas but listen I'm

gonna talk about what interests me and

what interests me changes and but I

think what interests me is interesting

so I talked about yeah you know listen

obviously I don't have nearly the same

notoriety as you do but I catch a little

bit of that on my end hey Donovan we

wanted we want we want to hear about

what you think about Donald Trump or the

the people that are running against him

or her I'm not a I'm not a political guy

I don't know really that much about

politics at all but I kind of catch some

of that here and there but a lot of

people think that you are all right

right so so what so what would you say

to people all well Roush in return of

Kings that's an all right website

what would you say that I mean I don't

get caught up in labels I am NOT a label

I am NOT in ideology I am a human being

with experiences ideas and knowledge

that's you know it's not firm it's not

stable you know this phone is stable

it's solid daddy I'd yeah but my I can

change my my can grow it's not so much I

changed my mind but I grow into things I

don't get I did a lot of people okay

because in the United States identity

was taken away from us all these uh

past traditions were taken away from us

we get no pride in where we are from we

are lost we have no identity so then

this is where we are reaching please

give me identity I am Mick tau I am red

pill on black lives matter I'm a white

nationalist identitarian you know people

are just dying give me some identity

it's like looking for you don't have a

favorite sports team

the first team you see that has colors

you like yeah I'm that I'm a fan right I

don't get into that you know I don't get

into labels like people say oh in the

manosphere there is these men in it who

believe in this I don't get into that

you know I'm not a I'm not a word

I'm a vibrating ball of energy in this

messed-up world but I don't need this

identity so I think that's where a lot

of the problems come forth my favorite

team is this and you're on another team

so we have to compete right

yeah that's listen I think that's what

people I think that's what people expect

anyway and I think what people

disingenuously sort of leave out of the

narrative in terms of the human

condition is that people evolve and

people change I remember the very first

presidential election I ever voted in

was 1996 I was 18 years old I voted for

Bill Clinton right 1996 four years later

I'm 22 years old

listen things had changed I voted for

George W Bush right and I think what

people have to understand is that you

can't nobody's gonna pigeonhole

themselves yes

some things are static but as as a human

being you have to I mean you have we're

born to be dynamic things change we

change viewpoints we changed the way we

are with listen we we go through stages

there was a time in your life where you

did nothing but you know fuck a bunch of

same thing with me I was fucking dude I

was fucking girls strippers this and

that left and right and while that was

fun eventually I grew out of that

does that mean I didn't have fun doing

what I was doing of course not does that

mean that I don't believe in PUA or

pickup game of course that's not what

that means all that means is that I'm at

a different stage in my life I don't

think anybody can label I don't really

think anybody can label me I know that

you said that you don't really go with

labels but I think people are looking

there they're always looking for

somewhere they're looking for a box to

put people in and ruch is all right ruch

is racist we'll wait a minute if he's

racist what is he why is he on a podcast

with donovan sharp I think that I think

that knocks that argument out of the

water as far as I'm concerned yeah I

mean you are going to grow into things

you grow out of things so what kind of

gets me is that people say oh Roush you

bang a lot of girls now but in 2011 you

wrote articles on how to say cheat on

your girlfriend or how to bang five

years ago are you going to take that

article down no I'm not gonna take it

down because at that moment in time

that's what I believed was right that's

what I was doing

I'm not going to revise history

constantly it's like tearing down

statues in the town Town Hall every

couple of years this is who I was this

is a record and I'm gonna keep it there

are people in the manosphere Rouge who

think that the tides are starting to

change they believe that feminism is on

its way out now I don't I don't share

that sentiment I think me personally I

think it's gonna get a lot worse before

it gets better and I listen I'd be

willing to bet my life ironically that

I'll probably be dead and buried by the

time people start to realize that

feminism was a bad idea do you think

that you will be around when feminism is

finally gone do you think it's gonna

happen in your lifetime what do you

think like what's it gonna take to turn

the culture around if at all if you

think about it feminism boils down to

two concepts allowing women to vote and

allowing women to have careers that put

that career above family right those are

the two main stems right everything else

kind of comes from this general

empowerment idea whether abortion birth

control social justice all that stuff

but those two main pillars

that's what feminism is now if there is

a girl who believes in the right to vote

and works in nine-to-five job is she

gonna self-identify as a feminist

probably not so what that tells me is

that feminism is normalized baked so

into the culture that to remove it would

require a revolution of some of some

type this is why I'm very pessimistic

that we can I hate to say roll roll the

clock back but that's what you would

really need to - I do a lot of men would

they think of

of the feminist theory is more like the

side effects more like the outside

branches on the tree instead of the root

and the root is giving women the right

to vote which is allowing them to have a

leadership role in their community this

is a masculine thing to vote is actually

a masculine activity to determine who

can lead and the second thing putting

career putting women into careers that

automatically demote a woman's

perception of how family should be until

you remove those two your I mean what

are you gonna win right listen I've

always been of the mind that listen

women can do whatever it is they want to

do that's fine listen it's a free

country it's a free world

but they can't have it both ways and I'm

of the mind that the more money the more

status the more power the more stuff

a woman acquires over her lifetime the

further she shrinks her pool of

potential suitors but they never

realized this until they're in their mid

to late 30s wait a minute you know I'm

I'm in my thirties I think I'm still

reasonably attractive I have this career

I have all this money I've traveled all

these destinations why aren't high-value

men busting down my door and the reason

for that is because of what you have

amassed and listen the rule of hypergamy

we most know women are not gonna try to

consolidate on men who are lesser than

they are a junior parlor listen a junior

partner at a law firm

she might date laterally for a little

bit but she doesn't want to she doesn't

want to marry the junior partner she

wants to fuck the senior partner she

wants to fucking marry the guy whose

name is is is on the business card so I

think that I think that I agree with you

it's definitely gonna get worse before

it gets better because there's no

there's really no stopping the Train I

think it's gonna take it's good I don't

know like the tides I guess are I don't

want to say the tides are turning there

seems to be more awareness but the more

awareness that seems to be shown the

more pushback we seem to get that's why

to me it's gonna get worse before it

gets better

yeah and then men also have to ask

themselves what are you going to win if

you get all the

wish list get all the goals on your wish

list and you make the culture better you

know how long it takes for cultures to

actually change takes years and years

and years so what do you gain you're not

gonna really gain anything your life

probably is not going to be improved

just because women get a little bit

better doesn't mean they're gonna start

banging down your door anyway you still

have to be an attractive guy so you have

to this is why I'm not so big into

advocating for societal change I know

what causes change and I have some ideas

but it really comes down to the

individual you're on your own you are on

your own there's a world of seven

billion people and that is you're not

going to be able to control the

direction of that change you can wish in

hope but that hope is just going to make

you upset when you see that the world is

going in the opposite way that you want

so game is one of the most powerful

individual things that a man can do but

at the same time you can have the best

game in the world and if the world is

going in another way girls are getting

worse or attitudes so then you have to

make a choice at some point if you can't

get what you want then you have to stop

it you have to try something else

what says what is the state of the

manosphere in your opinion what what

what do you see happening in the

manosphere over the next two to four

years because the manosphere it has

evolved to me it's evolved exponentially

I remember what I remember the

manosphere and kind of its heyday four

maybe five years ago before that it was

in it was in its infancy stages but the

manosphere seems to be evolving all the

time like there's always a new wrinkle

another group another personality what

do you see happening to the manosphere

over the next I don't know two to four

two to five years I mean honestly I'm

not sure what the manosphere is anymore

and that that's a big concern man that's

a I mean we have to define it first so

what how would you define it I would

define the manosphere as a collection of

a group of men who who preached

self-improvement who point out

unflattering facts about women and how

to deal with them and how to mitigate

the Damned

that they can cause to your life so that

you can live the best life possible

that's what the manosphere is to me so

whether it's pickup game yes the MiG

tell guys you know the you know the

religious philosophical guys like

Quintus dal rock you know guys like that

you know you've got you know you've got

obviously Rollo Tomassi Anthony Johnson

is doing his thing with with 21 studios

so again what all of these guys have in

common and listen there's some friendly

fire we have our rivalries and our beefs

here you know you and you and Rollo and

all and I like you and I like roll I

don't I don't have a dog in the fight

but I think I think what we all have in

common at the end of the day we are on

the same side that's what the manosphere

is to me we're just trying to help men

live better lives and the way for men to

live better lives is to learn the truth

about women and how to handle it you

know I can only say from my viewpoint

because I mean there's not many

manosphere blog streams that I I watch I

think self-improvement for every man

he's gonna hit a peak he's going to you

know I don't want to self-improve

anymore I like Who I am

I'm not going to take on this new goal

to improve to what you know to get what

you know some of this sometimes I like

the Fight Club quote that also from

provement is mental masturbation right

but I mean when you're in your 20s

there's this fire burning in you you

want more from the material world yeah

you're going to take self-improvement

stuff and do it when you get to my age

is this black pill after the next you

know when you're in your 20s it's like

yeah there's a flood the river is

flowing the waterfall it's so loud it's

just you feel like every year is gonna

be better every girl I bang is gonna be

hotter wherever you're gonna make higher

income you know your 20s I think is such

a but it sets this sets the stage for

the ER 30s yes so we start slow down

things start to slow down now you either

can hang on to your 20s which you

shouldn't do or accept hey I'm entering

a new type of age so I think for me the

manosphere I don't identify with a lot

of what's being spoken in

to it I think they're still stuck in

this world where you had just a little

bit of self-improvement and you're gonna

get there um I don't know I you know I

don't follow all of them but I am black

pills and since just every man for

himself do what you got to do but in

terms of this sense of community online

I don't feel it anymore I feel a lot of

ego clashing I actually just found out

before I came on I heard there was like

a beef between 21 conventions and that

speaker Cooper yep yeah and this is kind

of now what I see the manosphere doing

bunch of egos clashing you know and so

for me I kind of gone the lone after

returning Kings clothes I have been a

lone wolf just doing my own thing not

maintaining alliances Anthony Johnson I

met him in June he wants me to speak at

21 conventions he seems like he is a

good organizer yes what gain do I have

from you know going with this collective

group where dramas happening ego issues

I'll do it alone

yeah listen fair enough you know a lot

of people probably probably share your

sentiment I guess a follow-up question

to that would be what would be your

ideal what would be the ideal manosphere

in rucious perfect world what would the

manosphere be and how would it operate

you know I'm not sure that see the

problem is internet networks which the

manosphere is is really a surrogate

community you think you're in a

community of like you're in your village

where you know your neighbors and you

meet up every Sunday for drinks coffee

it it kind of makes it seem like that

we're in a community of men but you're

not you're in a network often driven by

again egos by financial interests by

competing ideologies by trolling and

things like this so I I don't know if

the answer is more internet stuff more

internet network

I think it's going offline so with

should be form it's pretty cool because

guys they meet off offline so even doing

the 21 convention talks that's pretty

cool because you get to meet my guys can

meet you I can meet them no that makes a

lot of sense but online communities I

mean they seem to all go bad in the long

run anyway

yeah that makes that actually makes a

lot of sense now that you think of it

and I think that I think that is Anthony

Johnson's goal but nothing lasts forever

just like you said and if especially on

the internet they say nothing can ever

be erased from the internet oh yes it

can I've had a couple of channels get

erased never to be seen again but this

is why this is why I associate with

Anthony because he and he's still in his

30s and he literally just turned 30 so

he still got that he still got that piss

and vinegar in him when we were his age

so I like that I like I like that he's a

cocky asshole that's that that that's

what I have in common with him but most

importantly he is he is bringing the

manosphere offline

I mean he's I mean he really does have

some big plans to sort of I mean don't

get me wrong we have to have an online

presence in order to you know gain

notoriety but the ultimate goal is to

make the offline event as a star of the


yeah Redman group we use that to

publicize that and you know give people

a chance to sort of consume the content

but offline I agree with you that to me

is the I'm not I don't want to put words

in your mouth but to me that that to me

would be the perfect ideal of a

manosphere something that could that's

something that could exist offline yeah

the the only thing I would monitor is

the over monetization you know I mean I

know that it costs a lot of money to

throw a conference but thousand but

always I would think if I am a reader

and I want to hear people speak a

thousand dollars that's a lot of money

right so I mean that's just something

that I would keep in mind for my own

just watching this sure but you know but

at the same time if he charges more he

can pay you more you can do this for a

living which is what we need so I'm it's

not something I'm saying it's bad I'm

just saying it's something that

keeping an eye on because usually when

vast sums of money are involved problems

tend to happen after that yeah

absolutely but I would I would say I

would counter with this I think that the

I think the price point is more for the

would-be trolls and people who would do

us harm because I mean listen you you I

mean you look at the chat I mean you

look at the chat and any one of any one

of our channels and there's all sorts of

threats you listen you remember what

happened back that you know back when

you tried to organize these meetups this

was 158 different cities around the

world this is happening in what will

actually we're going to Poland in July

but this is happening in in singular

location so I think I think the price

point part of the price point and listen

I'm not an ting I don't I don't pretend

to know what he's thinking but I I would

like to think that some of the thinking

in terms of the price point is concern

is to keep out people who aren't serious

because if you may listen if you make it

you know 50 bucks a ticket or something

like that then yeah now you've got all

sorts of infiltrators you've got safety


you know it's held in the state of

Florida where if you have a you know a

concealed carry permit all that other

kind of stuff and of course Anthony is

you know beefing up security but I think

that the price point is more for the

people he doesn't want to be there as if

as opposed to the people he actually

wants to be there yeah and look I don't

know the nuts and bolts it could be way

more expensive to throw this so I'm not

saying that's a main cause for me to get

upset about I'm just saying it's

something that I am keeping an eye on

because it is a lot of money not every

guy can afford that money - one more

quick question for you here um talk

about the plane being diverted with you

on it to take a hard left turn so you're

on a plane right and all of a sudden the

plane turns around because there's a

terrorist on board we've got a pickup

artist who's a rape apologist Denis you

know he wants to rape women and we have

to we have to go back talk a little bit

about that

so in my trip to the USA I found a good

fair using an airline called wow this is

a low-budget icelandic airline and when

you get on that you do say wow because

of how bad it is but anyway so going

back i had to fly I flew from Eastern

Europe to Iceland to the US

now going back to Europe it was DC till

to Iceland to London then to Eastern

Europe now I'm banned I know I'm banned

from the you from the UK as a result of

the meet about rage right they sent a

letter saying you are banned for three

for three years anyway I know it's bad

well stop alright so I knew I was banned

but I was like this is a connecting

flight I like to live dangerously what I

didn't know is that governments use the

airline reservation system to pre-screen

passengers before they enter the country

so if you're on a list they won't let

you enter which kind of is weird because

they cuz UK lets in all these Isis

people but anyway so I was so I flew

from DC to Iceland got on my Iceland

airplane things are going fine

ten minutes in we're already climbing

yeah announcement saying we have to

return back to Iceland pikas of a

security problem did you know it was you

know I was like no way this is no way

this is me no way they would turn a

plane back people were scared they were

scared they thought a bomb was on the

airplane people were nervous I don't

wait if you didn't know relax guys it's

me right the plane turns around lands

now instead of going to the terminal

goes into the middle of the tarmac

there's a police car there only one and

I was upset that it wasn't more than

that yeah right

anyway I surround airplane there's one

cop in here come on man you know I was

hoping for like SWAT and machine guns oh

yeah guys helmets all that the door

opens so they put like a ladder up to

the nut not a ladder

starik staircase up to the bill

- - cops come on board I'm in row eight

and the cops are counting one two three

four five six and they gets slower eight

then they look to my face and say dar

you sh which is my first name I said yes

it were like come with us and I got my

stuff they thank God I had a handbag

only I didn't have it I didn't have a

check baggage checked in long story

short they held me for one hour trying

to figure out what to do with me since I

didn't break any laws they said hey in

the UK you can't go but since you're

since you didn't break any laws here or

we'll let you go here so they stand my

passport so I had a nice scenic one-day

stay in Iceland before I had to buy

another ticket oh man I remember the

comment you said that the guard told you

so you have a black belt in women yeah

so I mean for him to get his in for him

to get his information about me he

googled me a new Google me it's a

nightmare oh great listen tribute right

here man you sit in front of the BMW

dude listen I love this propaganda type

stuff watch out for this guy man he

wants to rape you Jesus Christ man you

know at times I feel like my life is a

big joke but anyway so what's next for

you man so dude like literally like

you've had a very you've had a very

eccentric life you've seen it all you've

done it all you've written books you've

actually got another book out for the

ladies what's next man um you know what

what do you plan on doing here over the

next few years you plan on getting off

the grid I mean is there gonna be no

more rush yeah I just wrote my newest

book for women some manner man a date

they think I'm selling out I'm like look

you don't sell out if you're writing for

2% of your audience but I just have a

lot of good ideas that's why so I just

you know what this whole internet thing

writing streaming is basically a way to

express myself to make some sense of my

place in the world that's all it is the

money honestly you see the lodgings I

have it's crap

I don't spend that much I don't spend

that much I can't spend that much if I

know I'm gonna be shut down next week

right I don't need to sell that many

books you know I don't that's why I

don't push it that much so what is next

what is the next way I feel like I can

express myself in a way that allows me

to connect with people men women I only

need one girl now I don't need as many

as I used to I think the next step is to

do a book tour you know just do a book

tour and then after your glasses in the

in the suit and all that on so we're

back to that yeah I don't think I'm

gonna be doing suit stuff I think I mean

I have to dress my my age I'm gonna be

40 in June believe it I'm getting old

the life is going man life is going fast

but one thing I tell myself not to do is

don't hang on to the path to the past to

your youth like you see my beard is

getting white yeah this is making me I

don't think my face is that bad but this

is aging me quickly like girls they

guess my age is pretty close to what my

age is all the guys tell me you have to

color it I said no I'm not gonna do I'm

gonna accept what nature what life has

in store for me I'm going to own

whatever is coming out of this body this

mind and just go with it it's gonna take

me somewhere but whatever I did in the

past is past it's done it was fun it was

bad good whatever it's it's over what is

life where is it taking me now I don't

know but I know what I want to do and

that's drive around the United States in

a car speaking to men and around July

I'm gonna do it oh very good breaking

news breaking news listen ruch it's been

a pleasure man thank you very much again

for making time for myself and my

audience again guys you guys can follow

ruch on twitter at ruse v be sure to get

his latest book lady on roush v.com

any let any last words you'd like to say

to the audience I didn't see any any

serious questions in here from the

audience but anything you'd like to tell

my audience before we okay I'm just

gonna say since we were talking about

the Redman group a lot of people asked

me why do you have

with Rollo and I don't know if you

wanted to it too

yeah let's do it yeah once because I

mean I'm just saying this so I only have

to say it one time cuz people are asking

me constantly I don't want to talk about

it but here we have a venue okay when

the meetup outrage happened this was

around the press conference I was in bad

bad shape right Rollo took that as an

opportunity to hit me while I was down

saying basically I deserved all of this

because of my article when a man hits

you when you're down I think that

reveals a lot about about him and he

wasn't the only one I believe he saw my

star fading I was gonna give up because

that was a big outrage so I believe he

used that to assert himself as the

leader of the ministry he saw that as

the Eagle opportunity to be the top to

be the top dog now of course I didn't go

anywhere and a few months after I was

like you know maybe he was in a bad

place I think I unblocked him on Twitter

or something and then he took a swipe at

me again so he's playing this hot cold

feminine game and I just got tired of it

I said I don't want to associate with

that guy and that's it I didn't talk bad

about him I didn't go on a hate thing

about him I don't care what he does I

hope he does well I hope it becomes the

best speaker in the manosphere that's


but that's why so that's why I don't

have anything to do with it and that's

it you know I think it's you know it's

interesting when you get a lot of guys

in listen I don't know how much we do or

don't have in common we're all on the

same side and all the rest of that I

gotta admit I've got a pretty sizable

ego and I would think it's safe to say

that at least that that you do in some

regard ruched or Rolo does I am a

liminal man does anytime you get a lot

of guys who talk about the same things

anytime you get a class just like you

said a clash of egos for better or worse

you know this this is what happens I'm

not you know I'm not making excuses for

either you or him you know listen

Rollo's a good friend of mine you and I

have known each other for a while

it's you know I like the both of you so

I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sit here and

take a side one way or the other but I

will say that there's tremendous value

in the both of you you do what you do he

does what he does I do what I do and

cetera et cetera it it I guess it can

kind of be sort of unnerving to see you

know two of the two of the three big R's

you know yourself Rollo and of course

Roissy sort of at odds but two men I

would say hey you know what this is just

how it is man nothing when you get well

you have guys who wield this kind of

this kind of power and influence all

sort of in the same sphere you're gonna

get this agreement you're gonna get guys

who butt heads you're gonna get guys who

say things say and do things that other

guys may may or may not say or do so

that's really that's really where I

stand on it I don't like really is a

good guy you're a good guy you know I

don't tell guys don't go don't go to him

a lot of people say hey I get value from

rolos work great read him and I'm not

gonna block anyone from going there but

I will say that he must have had some

latent problem with me so when the

outrage happened he used that as some

kind of opportunity to publicly go after

me but I'll say this you were on

returning Kings for a long time I did

that site from 2012 to 2018 do you

remember any public fighting between the

writers and me weed I am drama-free you

know I like to view drama but in my life

in my fear I mean you were in the

private a chat - yeah we knew how did

settle differences we were very

respectful so when I'm not talking about

rolling out but when any man publicly

goes after you and he could message you

in private when he hits you when you're

down a man I got to draw a line right

and so every man draws a line but if you

get a value from his friendship from his

work that's fine you know if he didn't

hurt you great if you didn't go after

you great well I prefer honesty I really

listen man dude listen you're welcome on

the show anytime man really dude you're

like an endangered species around guys

kept telling me oh you know is you know

you got to get rushan you got a guru

shun and then finally I made the

announcement they said well you fire

hopefully he does I was like dude no

Roush never committed I talked about

getting him on that I had never really

had a hard date you're a busy guy you're

doing different things we all do

different things that's how it is Muni

in the chat says Rouge for Redman group

what do you think about that I'll go on

your show anytime very good good enough

for me

that's gonna do it for this edition of

this the four hundred and 13th edition

of TSR live again thank you ruse for

coming on and I will see you guys on

Saturday for the Redman group thanks for

watching guys we'll see you next time

Donovan SharpeComment