Online dating statistics with Black Label Logic (Episode 358)




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on the planet alright let's get to it my

special guest this afternoon is Carl

from Black Label Logic he co I don't

know co-anchors co-hosts with me on on

the red man group I think you're gonna

be there tomorrow is that is that

correct Carl yeah I was planning on it

and not quite updated on the top again

so I haven't made any notes but it's

always more fun when you get in there

you haven't prepared it all and you just

go with a

yeah mance when you get your best purple

pill jokes oh the purple pill jokes

never get old but what we're talking

about tomorrow is how men unplug from

the matrix and it should be it should be

quite quite an episode because I think

this is gonna be everybody's origin

story I think that's probably that's

probably where this is going to turn to

you like hey Donovan how did you find

the right band everyone knows my story

it's been well-documented but for those

who don't watch the red man go regularly

or don't follow me I think everyone's

origin stories are always a point of

curiosity everybody wants to know how we

found the red pill and how we unplug

that I think tomorrow's show should

should be interesting

the reason why Carl is with us tonight

or today of course you guys see it's

already nighttime out here in Philly out

here on the east coast is Carl has he's

got statistics on tinder tinder dating

apps online dating and this is gonna be

really good because Carl brought down

the house last time with his statistics

on black women you know the STD rates

the baby daddy rate the knotch count by

a certain age and so this promises to be

a great episode so what do you have in

store for us tonight girl no I have some

online dating statistics these are

mostly from a big data dump that was

done from OkCupid we haven't really

gotten any good tinder stats yet but

it's kind of assumed that they mirror

OkCupid a lot perhaps it's even more

extreme because tinder is more visual

than OkCupid ever was I mean OkCupid

they have a matching that's based on

interests too I'm not sure if you've

ever used any online dating type

services no actually I have not then um

I'm and that's the theme and like when I

think about the the amount of money and

time and effort I don't want to call it

time I don't want to say that I wasted

my time or my money because to me it was

time and money well spent I mean don't

get me wrong I throw away a lot of money

waste a lot of money etc etc but I could

have really done my bottom line much

much better like I've got a nice little

nest egg that's gonna be available to me

in a few years I was smart enough to set

that up but that nest egg would be

substantially larger had

gotten involved with the online dating

craze now the thing with the reason why

I like it as if you have you still need

solid day game and night game because

you're eventually going to meet this

girl so if you have the world's most

fire text game and you're great online

game that doesn't really matter if you

show up and you're a fucking sperg

that's not gonna work out for you that

makes sense so you still have to have

the game to match the the online game of

the text game yeah I actually have an

innovation that I'm bringing up later in

my presentation which I think your boy

Kevin from sales is going to love yes

but I'll just jump into the stats and

we'll take a look at them I only have

one monitor here so I'm only going to be

able to see this slide presentation once

I start just you're aware that yeah no

problem at all I'm gonna put the I'm

actually gonna put it directly on you

it's gonna focus on you so even when I

talk it's not gonna venture away from

the screen oh there we are so now your

screen okay there you are perfect all

right let's do it man here we go alright

so first off we're gonna look at some

basic rankings of how men rate female

looks and what you can see from this

status men rate more or less on a bell

curve so most women are in the area from

4 to 7 and then you have slightly you

have the fewest once intense and then

you have slightly more twos and threes

then you have slightly more forest and

then you have the big middle which is

around five six which is the average of

the distribution so this is just an

implication that guys kind of keep in

mind okay this girl is this attractive

relative to all other girls

the interesting thing comes when you see

how women rate men because women rate a

very majority of men as below 50%

average as below average attractiveness

which is kind of an oxymoron because 50%

over 50% cannot be under average by

definition right so this is the

confirmation of female rating on looks

for the Alpha fox beta bucks because

what you can see here is from 6 to about


that's a very small portion of men

that's seven and a half plus four plus

about three plus two plus about one so

about 1314 percent maybe above the six

according to women so women very picky

well they're picky but the thing I've

been theorizing is that women have this

idealized man in their head and they

rape men all men based on that man so

they're not actually looking at the

market and what's out there and then

making a judgement of a man relative to

all the other men they're making a

judgement on the men based on an

archetype if you will of the perfect guy

so you know they may might be comparing

to Channing Tatum or some other guy

they're crushing on one of the more

interesting things that came out of this

was the messages received versus

attractiveness so as we all gasp highly

attractive women get the most messages

that's the dark blue line in the graph

here okay but you big act over 25 times

as many messages as average Wow Wow 20

so for every one message that a woman

gets the average looking woman gets the

superhot girls gets 25 yeah roughly so

and it's the same thing with the hot

males they get 10 11 times as many

messages so they're still making out

pretty well but nowhere near the Hyatt

most attractive women and this is kind

of why you see dodgy response rate from

the highly attractive women because if

you came in every day and you logged on

and you had like 400 messages in there

you're not gonna get to all of them like

I have 30,000 Twitter followers or

something and I know I have 27 I think

and I can't even get through all my

mentions it's like in on a given day

when I log in I have like a hundred

mentions in there and I can get to them

also I can only imagine what some chick

with like 400 messages will do when she

logs onto our OkCupid you know you know

it's it's interesting and I don't I

don't mean to interrupt here but this is

I think a lot of men Karl don't really

they get

get jaded right like when they match up

with a girl and and they they they text

a girl and she doesn't text back so like

fuck man like girls are flaky in this

and the other and yes girls are

definitely flaky there is no doubt about

it however the reason why they're flaky

is because they they're just in it like

when you're old woman if you're a hot

woman you are getting inundated with

messages and offers constantly she may

very well have liked you in that moment

but dude you got to understand that at

some point she press she might just

forget about you that's just I mean to

me that's the bottom line right well I

got up to about 300 tinder matches at

one point and I had to start deleting

them because I just couldn't get around

to all of them

Wow and you're a man well it's just it

gets to a point where you have so many

people in your match list and you have

so many messages coming in left and

right like one week I think I had

something like 12 or 13 dates and I

couldn't keep the girls apart said did

you ever overlap any dates well I I

usually double booked them if I have a

feeling that the girl is going to flake

but I'll get into some of the tactics

and strategies a little bit later in the


all right well please continue that's

good information let's see here this is

one of the all of this is from an essay

I wrote called the chalice and the

crucible it's on my website but what

this looks at is response rate as a

relative to smv so the HML aren't as

high medium low and we're attractiveness

and then w is women m is men okay so if

you looked at the highly attractive

women the dark blue line you can see

that if the men who messages them has a

because he kind of they're the lower one

is the smv of the sender and then you

have the message success rate where a

message success is when you get a

response okay and one of the more

interesting things here is that for the

highly attractive men and that response

rates spikes when they're sending it to

the threes in the distribution but they

actually have a lower the lowest

response rate are when they message once

and twos now these people rank on a one

to seven scale

not a 1 to 10 so it's a little bit

different just sit and be aware of that

so if you're a really hot guy going

really hardcore slumming it's not going

to work for you because the girl will

know ok he's just looking for a

slump-buster but on the other hand the 3

step would be the equivalent of you know

someone in roughly in the middle on

attractiveness slightly below average is

still narcissistic enough to think oh he

might actually want something more from

me so for once

female narcissism actually works in your

advantage okay but you can also see that

the high value women are kind of

responding more to the kind of

average-looking dudes and I'm not really

sure why that is I have no good

explanation for it and it's one of those

paradoxes I don't get that is weird does

it have anything to do with I don't know

and and we're just talking about

matching up right so if I mean is there

any catfishing going on because again

when we talk about online dating I don't

know somewhere something in the

neighborhood of 97 to a hundred percent

of a woman's decision is based strictly

on looks because she doesn't have

anything else to go on so I mean I mean

any idea as to why these average guys

are getting matched up with these

hotties or is it just an anomaly no what

I suspect is the case with OkCupid is

that you get a lot of the betta bucks

effect in that the they don't split by

age so if you do all girls ages 20 to 60

you're going to have a lot of women who

are rated fairly high and attractive

rain attractiveness for their age

bracket they're looking for a provider

and they wouldn't want a guy that's you

know a point or two or three maybe even

below them right so he's really happy

that he's gotten himself a hottie but

she's milking him for his money right

okay well hey listen man that's it that

to me that's an even exchange of

services right yeah pretty much next one

here is the most interesting thing

though because what a lot of the

statistics show is that the bottom 80%

of men are busy chasing the bottom 22%

of women so that's war about four men

per 20 women

four men per woman in the lower brackets

oh wow

okay so let me just let me get this

straight the bottom 80% of men are

chasing the bottom 22% of females so

what's happened so who's chasing the

middle the middle

what is it 40% cuz I mean obviously the

top 20% of men are teasing the top 20%

of women so who's chasing percentages I

guess 23 through 79 well that's the

funny thing about the other stack

because the top 78% of women are busy

chasing the top 20% of men yeah unbeliev

an inverse there because you have more

or less for chicks per top guy and then

you have four dudes / bottom woman and

this explains and a lot of guys

rightfully say this is why we have

threes fours and fives acting like

they're eight nines and tens because

they simply have more guys chasing them

well the reality is if you look at this

from an SMB perspective the high value

women are actually gonna feel less

highly valued because they're busy they

feel like they're in a hyper competitive

state for the top 20% of men where the

bottom 80% of men feel like they're in a

highly competitive States for the bottom

22% of women so you're gonna have an

inverse of the same effect so you're

gonna have the high value guys you're

gonna have the situation none of them

want to commit none of them want to

settle down because they're too busy

drowning in women and on the other hand

you're gonna have the bottom 80% of men

desperate to lock down one of the bottom

checks which explains all these blue

haired feminists or in poly

relationships with like four or fucking

husbands all makes its all makes perfect

sense man they're still being

occasionally banged by one of the top 20

guys - well the other four watch a

little bit right BV slump-buster right I

mean that's gotta be that that that's

gotta be what that is now moving on a

little I'm gonna go through a quick

conceptualization I did on game and this

is a graphic that I used in in my essay

last week where the when you look at the

inverse pyramid the highest volume is

going to be your approaches your

was gonna approach more girls than you

close you're always gonna close more

girls than you date and you're always

going to date more girls than you lay

okay that makes sense I like that I'm

gonna take it out

oh wait for the next one down one you're

gonna love this next one okay all right

now here it's the game sales funnel now

excuse me go ahead I'm sorry go ahead go

ahead explain okay so you in the lead

generation you have online game you have

day game you have night game and you

have social circle game which are the

kind of the four major areas of game for

those of you most of you are gonna be

familiar with online game day game and

night game social circle game is more or

less trying to fuck your friends sisters

cousins female friends friends of their

girlfriends etc it's working within your

social circle okay and these all of

these generate leads now in sales terms

a lead as a potential customer right

right so the least you generate are

going to go into the conversion stage so

for online game that would be a match


for a day game that will be a number

close or an insta dates okay for a night

game it would be taking her home that

night usually or getting her number and

the same thing for social circle game so

then you go into the conversion stage

and for an online game and number

closest that would be when you try to

follow her up on the phone your texture

you call or whatever and you're going to

have two types of girls here you're

gonna have the conversions which are

going to be the girls that agree to

actually go out with the data with you

in the follow up stage and you're going

to have a certain percentage of a drop

off because you've done a lot of day

game you know that if you number if you

approach a hundred girls you main number

close like forty or fifty if you're

really good and out of those you might

be able to get like 20% of them to go

out with you

yeah it's in even then that's an

extremely high percentage and not to not

to hijack your

that's here but I always I always give

this example if you're really good if

you approach ten girls you're gonna get

seven numbers if you're good although

seven four are going to respond four are

going to or I'm sorry for going to wait

you you wait hold on you approach ten

girls you get seven numbers of those

seven four will respond to your text

messaging of those four who respond to

will agree to a meet-up and at least one

of them are going to flake and at that

point it's anybody's guess what happens

with the one girl

so yeah the percentages are not on your

side yeah so then you once you get her

out on the date you're in the follow-up

stage and in this you're going to have

the girls that actually show up and

you're gonna have your flakes just just

to get your definition straight here not

all girls are flakes that I like I had a

girl reschedule on me today I don't

consider that a flake because I'm going

out with her later

next week but it's still when annoyance

because it fuck's up my logistics and

running solid game in volume is 90%

fucking logistics yes yes yes yes well

this cannon will fuck up your game man

I'm trying to tell you well it's just

the way I say I plot out I use a Google

Calendar to plot out all my dates oh

there you go and I usually double booked

them so like oh if I have the volume

coming in I'll do a girl at 6 o'clock

and I'll have a girl at 8 o'clock yep so

that way if my six o'clock flake if my

six o'clock flakes I still have a date

at 8 o'clock and if my six o'clock goes

really well I Oh flake on the 8 o'clock

you know or you can and flaking on women

but that never happens well you can also

do the one that I think it's black

dragon that suggests you know doing a

fairly six short 60 to 90 minute date

where you basically don't even kiss the

girl at the end and you follow her up a

little bit later and then you can go

directly for the same night close with

the girl yet later yes I love it

that's that abundance so anyway and out

of the girls that come out on the date

with you you're gonna move to the close

face and you're gonna have a certain

number of girls that you're able to

close and then you're gonna have

a certain percentage that drop-off if if

you're doing night game this is your

classic last minute resistance if you're

doing day game it can be something

getting in your way or she has to go or

something if you're doing an online game

it's more or less the same the flaking

thing once you get beyond into the

conversion step and the close step game

is the follow up step and the close step

game is more or less identical because

the only real difference is like if you

start with online game you're gonna have

text games soon or if you start with day

game you're gonna have text game later

so the the tactics in the in and of

themselves are the same they just switch

places because if you have really great

online game and you have really good

text game that's not gonna help you if

you have no game in reality you know

yeah cuz you're not gonna know what to

do when they actually get the girl in

front of you

so moving on here are some key

performance indicators that I've devised

and I use to kind of track myself over

time you have lead generation that would

be successful approaches divided by

total approaches so if you approach 10

girls and you get seven seven numbers

you have a 70% lead generation rate for

that and for online I usually use

matches and message responses so if I

match with a hundred girls I'm message

all hundred of them then you're going to

get maybe if you're lucky you're gonna

get maybe 30 to 50 responses depending a

little bit on timing okay then you have

prospect generation that would be

successful approaches it will be dates /

successful approaches I mix them up or

you would have message responses to date

so if 30 girls message you back and you

get ten of them on a date then you have

a thirty three percent success rate in

that one and then you have the close

which is the number of F closest divided

by the total number of dates and the

ya-ya FSF uh close its so I think you'd

be familiar with that term it's really

old PUA lingo about that I guess I got I

guess I got into that a little bit late

yeah k close is to kiss close I'm close

it's a number close

yeah okay so moving on here are some

examples at it and this is for Carl it

really gets into the math let's do it

now for a hundred tender matches and

this is like my rule of thumb if you

macked with a hundred girls you're not

gonna message a hundred girls because

you're always gonna have that girl like

you thought look you're gonna be like a

girl you slip right on because she has a

cute face and then when you go to

message or you click through a picture

he's like oh fuck she's fat or you know

there's something in there that you

didn't notice while you were swiping

yeah you you know you'll see something

like oh shit she has kids or something

like that though if you have a hundred

mattress and you send 80 messages that's

an 80% sent ratio okay and then you have

a 20% false positive those were girls

you thought were hot there are not if

you have 20 responses out of a hundred

that's a twenty percent response rate 60

out of if you send out 80 messages and

60 do not respond that is 75

non-response rates okay if 10 girls

agree to go out on a date you have a 50%

conversion rate from response messages

to your dates and that usually means you

have really strong text game oh yeah I

was gonna say your game is tight yeah if

you win the other one if you have like a

twenty percent response rate so you

message a hundred girls and twenty

percent of them respond you really have

to work on your openers and then from

the last step you have 10 in 100 so then

you have a ten percent conversion rate

from the first step of the funnel to the

second step of the funnel so you

probably want to bring that up a bit

yes the big benefit of online game is

that getting a hundred matches is

usually a lot less labor-intensive than

approaching a hundred girls in real life

a hundred approaches if you calculate

about 15 minutes per approach is going

to take if I remember correctly about

thirty three hours of real time this is

where I was talking about missing the

boat and understanding how much money in

time I

I could have saved had I been an

online-dating well what you just have to

look at from my perspective Asst

approaches are what costs you that's not

your most unproductive time so just

grinding out more and more approaches if

you're not able to convert if you can

approach a hundred girls and you can get

you know seventy numbers which is your

stats and you if you can take that from

you know like four P for 40 of them

responding to sixty that's going to make

a hell of a lot more of a difference for

you than doing a hundred extra

approaches okay yeah that makes sense

and then out of those ten dates you

managed to set up three of them flakes

so that's a three in ten so that's a 33%

flake rate which I'm not really sure if

that's high or low because I've never

really seen anyone other than me run

hard statistics on their tender that's

interesting if so if you set up three

dates and you get a 33% flake rate you

are doing very very well I've never kept

statistics on on dating or anything like

that I just went out and just blindly

did it but I can tell you this if only

one out of every three dates that I set

up flaked on me then I would probably

have a few kids by now I'll put it to

you that way you know you also have to

run into the fact that you know

sometimes you get cold leads like you

have in sales you talk about hot leads

cold leads and I like to call you know

lukewarm leads and what that breaks

interest you have the like whenever a

girl opens me on tinder with like a

really specific because I run a very

tight bio game okay so I think that's

because I've tried running without a bio

I've tried running with you know a

standard bio and I've tried with to run

with a really fire bio and a lot of

girls match based on the bio okay now

not that not that we want to get into

this but give us just a very quick

snippet on the things and a bio that

makes a difference what things should

men put in their bio that can raise

their percentages their way to raise

their odds of getting matched well I'm

probably going to put this out on my

patreon in the

couple of weeks because I'm working on

kind of a template for writing a good

online dating bio but the major things

that and you kind of have to tailor this

to yourself like I'm good with words I

have a solid sense of humor and I'm

pretty good at copywriting so I can kind

of write in a way that brings out that

part of my personality but generally

what you want to do is you want to give

them a reason to swipe right so I

generally always try to somehow get the

line swipe right to like a call to

action at the end of the bio ok a call

to action this is interesting Carl

because I'm sure I don't know if you saw

my or heard about my how being great at

sales makes you better with women it is

so interesting how your vernacular is I

mean we could be talking about women we

can be talking about sales we're talking

about close-ratio we're talking about

conversion we're talking about calls to

action these are all sales job

advertising sales related language it's

amazing how so much like sales and

advertising daygame and online dating is

it's amazing well it's just it's natural

because what you're doing is you're

selling yourself to a potential customer

this is what Jonathan from Modern Life

dating says all the time sex is sales

yeah that's so accurate like usually

what I'll grab one of my because I have

all my tinder BIOS in a notepad on my

phone and I just switched them out every

once in a while but you know usually you

want to do like one time I did a

competition so I gave them you know

something like three quotes that someone

said about me and I said who said them

and you know you got porn you get a

point if you can guess who said what and

you know swipe right to see if you won

oh that's great there you go man like

you're engaging with the girl already

and then when you actually meet up with

her you can tell her about the person

that actually said that about you

yeah plus a lot of them will well not a

lot but you know about let's say five to

ten out of a hundred will actually open

you with

answer and asking you know what do I get

now that I wanna oh well you know you

got all three of them right so you get a

date with me congratulations we're going

out Friday there it is boo and they love

that shit don't they they usually

respond pretty favorably wait

congratulations you have earned the

right to go out on the date with me yeah

so you're just doing that as I'll just

play Ohio value there you go there you

go the standard game guys this isn't and

again it's not like we're telling you

anything we that you guys don't already

know but girls love it when when when

you take interesting paths to get there

I would never have thought of a swipe

right to find out congratulations you

pick door number two you know you get to

go out on a date with me I'll see you

Friday night at 7:00 dress sexy where

you can also run the one you know if she

gets two out of three right okay you

know you only got two other three right

but I'm going to take pity on you and

we'll grab a coffee there you go dude I

swear to god man if I'd done online

dating and gotten classes like this dude

I would have killed dude I would never

oh my god I just think about all of the

time and the money I spent man oh god it

makes me sick to my stomach

yeah I think my favorite on my game

interaction so far was like a two-hour

interaction I had with a girl discussing

various sexual innuendo related to

notepads and fountain pens so to

continue on here if you get two girls to

go home with you that's two in seven

because here are 10 dates you had three

flakes you have seven so that's a 28.5%

conversion from date to getting them

home but you have a two in a hundred

total so that's a two percent conversion

from step one and it's a too intense so

it's a twenty percent close ratio there

you go see two percent from the start

right so I think was Paul djenka who

famously had an 11 percent approach to F

close ratio 11 percent Karl

dude you are King fucking dingaling man

so you understand how so you are feeling


times out of a hundred and eleven

percent most guys if they're halfway

decent close at two to four percent if

they're good honestly men I probably

closed it five percent so that's one out

of twenty girls I approached I got laid

well I just think it kind of goes to if

you go through the entire funnel from

the earlier slide yeah you just have to

kind of work on each step because

ideally the once you have those hundred

those two 100 leads generated the fewer

of them you drop off because your major

drop off is in the first step so you you

either get the match you get the number

and then you kind of loose usually most

of them in that first step so the better

opener game you have for an online game

or the more vibing and connection you

can build before letting or go the

better it is yeah that makes sense

no that makes purpose it one second

Donovan I'm trying to set up a girl to

come over later

it is Carl in action real quick guys

this this answers a lot of questions a

lot of guys a lot of guys ask these

rhetorical questions in terms of the

game like why do girls flake why the

fuck can I get her to come home with me

why do I have to approach so much you

don't really want the answers because

you know the answer is no these are

quantities or quantifiable numbers this

is why you can't get her to respond this

is why you fucked her that night this is

how many girls you have to approach to

get and to get the volume that you want

this these are the statistics man Kevin

in our almost called was Kevin tails

Kevin Samuels chimed in says convert

that bitch and make her sign on the line

which is dotted right paper a porch

climbs the word said an ex of mine

showed me her account 500 messages of

hey in the first in a few hours yeah

absolutely man that's how this goes okay

so we're three presentation now and I

think I just to reiterate what we've

been through

getting the approaches

done is just kind of the first step

because any monkey can grind out a

hundred approaches sperm right but the

reason why I devised all these metrics

was because if you're looking at it if

you're looking at this from a purely

sales perspective if you're working at a

car lock and you get a hundred customers

coming in and you sell a car to two of

them are you gonna be happy with the

work no you're not you're not getting a

bonus that month two out of a hundred

but then you have to look at where are

you loosing them so you get a hundred

people walking in you're gonna have a

hundred first impressions you're making

and then you know if 20 of them walk

away and 80% continue on and you start

to show them around the car lot and you

show them around and then suddenly 60 of

them are gone then you have to wonder

are you showing them route the right car

are you gauging kind of the price point

they're looking for are there were are

they worrying about financing are they

worried about insurance costs what are

they actually looking for and this is

where you have a lot of room to improve

your game by tailoring it like our good

friend Anthony and he does it in a

different way because his goal is just

to filter out as many non-productive

leads like he wants nothing but girls

with a sense of humor that he likes and

who are down to fuck right now he wants

what are called the lay down closes and

it's so funny there are so many slutty

girls out there they are lay down closes

and Anthony has a genius way of just

filtering them all down so he doesn't

have to put in anywhere he's like fuck

this I'm looking for the lay downs and

he is very effective at getting those

lay downs for sure yes I think it's just

it goes back to what you want to do and

I think once you get to a certain points

getting rid of anything but smoking hot

leads that's just effective if you have

if you get a ton and ton of matches on

line or if it's really easy for you to

approach then that's probably the way to

go okay I've got a question here in the

chat and then we have somebody on the

line waiting for us we got a guy by the

name of Roy

hello Tomasi he wants to know how

important is looks in the equation well

you know I've I got this I got some a

mug attempts for this when I posted some

shit earlier on Twitter about it a

couple of weeks back and you know I

would give myself well I get I'd give my

tinder pictures about a seven seven and

a half in a slightly narcissistic way

but my looks are not nothing special

what I've done is I'm in shape I follow

Tanner and well-built style style advice

okay yes yes yes tanners that I go to a

very good barber okay and I make sure

you know to do all have all my basics

covered and you know one thing all men

can learn from all women is how to take

a fucking picture like I have this game

going with a lot of the girls I bring

home from tinder where we actually sit

down and I kind of swiped through their

profile and they get to play around and

look at mine and you know there are a

lot of basic bitches out there but there

are a lot of basic dudes out there to

know listen you're right I actually had

a guy call in today my man see in Vegas

and you know we talked about how a lot

of black women or how a lot of black

yeah black men and black women say up

black men ancient black women ain't shit

well if you're an ain't shit nigga then

you're gonna attract ancient bitches and

if you're an ancient bitch you're gonna

attract ain't shit nigga so just like

Carl said in that same vein you got a

you got a lot of ain't shit dudes out

there or ain't shit girls out there you

kind of have to you kind of have to help

them out let's go to the phone lines

area code four one five you're on live

with Donovan and Carl go Anna hey

gentlemen how's it going this is calling

from California okay so a couple

questions first of all I love your work

Carl any anomalies awesome I love the

unique perspective so my question is

when is your second book coming out and

question number two is in terms of like

ratio of pictures or other types of

pictures that you have on your tinder

profile what's a great ratio for having

like say photos that's been done by a

professional or even

ah good question well to do the first

one the book should be out sometime in

December I'm currently working on the

cover with Ryan from the Redman group

I'm getting him back into graphic design

good and I'm still working my way

editing up the first draft people

underestimate how long time how much

time editing actually takes it's a pain

in the fucking ass because you know

there's going to be people here's a

spelling error there's a spelling error

here's something that's not conjugated

correctly right well what I have on my

tinder I have the first one

my first profile pic is a selfie and

then the second picture looks kind of

professional I've actually done them

using a remote Hey I have my own camera

set up with the tripod camera various

objects lenses and then I have a remote

thing for it so I can actually take

professional looking photos with my own

equipment so the second one looks

professional third one's a selfie the

fourth one looks professional and then

the fifth one looks professional so I

added and removed pictures but I think

the most important one is to if you have

more than like three pictures your worst

picture is going to be the one that

disqualifies you so if you have like one

picture of you looking really really


that's better than having one picture of

you that looks great and then having one

picture where you're in Crocs with cargo

shorts and one picture where you're

passed out drunk and a cheap-ass motel

call that is fucking wonderful I love

that that I like the cot the contrast

pass out passed out drunk in a cheap

motel I understand it but for those who

don't explain the explain the brilliance

behind that I think that's fucking great

the brilliance behind behind catch me

I'm the picture of you being passed out

in in a cheap motel no you don't want to

use that one oh you don't want to use

that one oh I thought you were using it

to like troll never mind see I missed

the boat there I got you know if

I generally try to avoid that because

what you want to do with like you can

have a picture with you let's say you

can I like having asked many casual

pictures as possible I make sure to have

at least one close-up of my face with my

beard done properly good hair no

sunglasses okay so they can go yeah it's

kind of back and forth if you want to be

smiling or if you want to have more of a

serious expression if your supposed to

have more eye contour by side contact

just work something out just use the

best one okay and then I'd like to use

at least one picture that shows me waist

up or more so you know so they can see

that you're in shape good very good I

like that now Jonathan from modern life

dating says you could spend a hundred

bucks and get professional pictures

taken now a guy like you you don't have

to do that because you have equipment

that can take professional pictures but

for guys who don't have the equipment or

the skill that you do would you

recommend making the investment to get

professional pictures taken for online

dating profiles I'm kind of split on it

because I saw some I saw a blog post

from a site that actually does photo

testing oh wow and professional photos

or photos that are obviously

professional okay tend to rate slightly

lower than selfie so you want to have a

mixture because if you have just

professional model type photos that

might come off as being a little bit too

smooth you kind of like over gaming yes

yes yeah you want to you want her to see

you in your element I'm not you know

you're not just Zoolander and blue steel

and leti GRU and all that stuff no like

okay listen I've got the money and I've

got the looks to invest a little bit in

professional pictures but hey here's me

on the bike trailer hey here's me

lifting weights or hey here's me in the

car or hey here's me passed out drunk in

a cheap motel right well you want to go

with and you also want to think a little

bit about what message are you sending

like if you're in a suit in all your

pictures that's going to send the send

the impression

you know rich guy provider vibe right

away yes you know just like Ryan always

says never lead with your wallet ever um

Hashim Abdullah says do the OkCupid

reply stats on race still apply or does

your mileage vary based on your relative

value Oh the OkCupid algorithm is kind

of unknown what we know about it if it

matches a lot based on mutual interests

that's kind of the big thing with all

the major dating companies that are

trying to be serious and Tinder's

algorithm it's it's different it's based

on a chess algorithm called an elo score

which is if you're a highly ranked chess

player and you beat someone who's ranked

at the bottom you're not gonna get a lot

of points for beating them but if

someone who's really ranked low beats

you they're gonna get a lot of points

yes okay so that's part of the tinder

algorithm so if some if a ten likes you

and then tinder thinks you're a four

then you're gonna get boosted maybe to a

five okay at the same time if you're

constantly swiping right on everything

Kendra is gonna lower your score because

they're like okay this is a guy he has

no standards we're just gonna drop his

score down a bit yeah this is a guy he's

just looking to fuck anything that moves

right yeah so there are a lot of factors

and no one knows really all the

variables that go into the algorithm but

I've had a lot of success with tracking

my left and right swipes and keeping it

between 50 to 70% rights okay all right

that makes sense and for those of you

who have tinder gold make sure that you

don't do more than 100 swipes a day okay

if you have tender gold do not do more

than 100 swipes a day like I doubt that

you know 110 is gonna make much of a

difference but there are some guys who

are just sitting there for like hours

just swiping everything there were even

some guy who made like a bot to just

swipe all girls right and send them an

open message oh my god

his elos scores probably like maybe a 1


well you're killing yourself by doing

that yeah right so you want to kind of

make so you want to kind of keep in mind

that this treated like if you're doing

daygame you're not gonna approach every

girl that walks past you perfect that

makes perfect sense you're perfectly

right because if you approach every girl

that walked past you then you'd be

fucking a bunch of fatties yeah you're

gonna hit on everything and you know

that's gonna be really noticeable and

you those of you have been in Eastern

Europe when one of these pua groups were

doing a boot camp and they have suddenly

sent out like 40 guys all of them

dressed in black leather jackets black

boots black jeans and they all go out

and start Sargen down a street you know

that kills any chance any guy on that

street has of getting laid that's what I

do because they're out there dude

they're out for pussy man does the

fucking pussy army 911 for two oh five

five three five six is the number to

call let's go back to the phone lines

area code 702 they're on live with

Donovan and black people on a common

thief in Las Vegas again hey what's up

see I knew I'm involved today of course

what's going on brother

um hey Carl I saw I want to ask you a

question uh two two questions how does

boost boost affect the outcome at all

he's even worth it I want your thoughts

on next to her darling from one of my

salmon gaming uh mention boost but I

want your take on it but also another

thing too um tinder gold you mentioned

uh don't do over a hundred wherever the

one thing that kind of noticed is that I

go through on tinder because you know

I'm busier life so I'll use tinder a lot

but the thing is though but one thing I

kind of notices

I'll get first consistency I'll get

first of it matches whatever it is so

it's almost like you know sometimes will

be a drought and burst droughts and

birds because he's that the algorithm is

that or to explain why that happens or

this game or I need to upgrade my um

profile ever go ahead well to do the

first one boost is fucking amazing and

that's well worth the money

okay excellent know what boost does is

that when you first get Pinder you get

what's known as a newbie boost and you

get that every time you go to a new city

- so what that does is it kind of pushes

you up into you know the swipe lack you

get the cards with everyone's profiles

going and what boost does it pushes you

up that deck so you get near to the top

but you want to be real careful about

when you're using the boost and I think

this leads into your next question

because the best days of using boost are

is generally seen as Sundays and

Thursdays between eight and between 8

p.m. and 10 p.m. because that's when

tinder has the highest weekly activity

Wow well one of the funny thing you can

actually go in and see when an app has

the most active users so for OkCupid

that's usually in the morning but for

tinder it's specifically at night

usually between 8:00 and 10:00 and the

two busiest days are Thursdays and

Sundays no but what you have to keep in

mind on Iran is most people are out on a

Friday or a Saturday okay there we go

that also do not have dates for the

weekend and they're going to be on

tinder Thursday trying to land a date

see this just proves this just goes so I

know nothing about online dating this is

crazy but that makes sense

wait recall yeah perfectly segues I'm in

Las Vegas his dog knows I'm in Las Vegas

yep does the geography I mean I know

it's you've been to other cities where

is it is any strategy that gets pretty

lousy for example will be your general

tips for garlic in Las Vegas good

question well you know I haven't been to

Vegas with tinder but my general opinion

after visiting about six different

cities with kinder is that you want to

be in a bigger metro

at an area about ochre half-a-million is

low but if you're a million or higher in

population that's going to be good okay

because I was thinking as well as

thinking call was using the boost when

I'm out on the strip instead of saying

no on the outlines I walk on the

straight lines but I was thinking okay

probably first user groups were near the

strip just just expand my reach to the

best and the highest quality or did not

the most valiant okay guys thanks Carl

no Liz if you go into your tinder

settings you can set your maximum

distance manually in set that if you're

right outside Vegas you can set that up

too quite a long distance around where

you are so you can still hit the strip

from further away but I guess the

downside would be you're gonna hit all

the Hillbillies that live outside Vegas

in the middle of the fucking desert for

those by the way good thing if you're

trying to score meth I guess that stuff

is that listen see if you're familiar

with the Vegas strip I used to live on

the 14th floor of the Soho that's what

kind of pad I used to have if you're

familiar with that area Jesus man

that's a pussy bag it with him it wasn't

me any games you got that don't you

though dude it's dude I drove a fully

loaded out e85 completely paid doing I

mean is of course I'm a bold brash

mother dude it was well it was it was he

it was who was easy pickins a man I said

that it's almost like I was sitting in

my apartment just with a sniper rifle

just picking just picking bitches off

just hitting the tranquilizer going down

dragging him up dragging him up in a

Suzy wake up wait stop oh shit okay well

what's up it was it was that said it was

that easy

oh my god awesome it's so crazy too

because I got one more question died

yeah going with the gardens point so

call it because this makes my type

abstract but maybe you could deconstruct

in the unpack this tourism because you

know biggest tourism hotspot in your

mind how that

tinder in any way or it wasn't affected

at all it's just didn't mean anything

because it's a lot of where you are if

you're in a more conservative country or

a country that's more focused on

relationships a lot of girls are going

to disengage once they realize you're a

tourist and you're just there for fun

but it can also work to your advantage

because they see you as kind of the safe

guy to get with without anyone they know

knowing and it can also work in your

benefit if you're in a place like Vegas

where a lot of people go to have fun

because a lot of girls will go there and

you know what happens in Vegas stays in

Vegas that that that train they had ran

on them in the middle of the floor at

the casino that's facing Vegas wild

motherfuckin times dude okay guys thank

you call preciate it

see you later take care and they will

talk soon brother yes sir yeah man it's

all about the tie it was all about the

soho times man i lived in and this was

and it's funny like I told guys about

this I was making I was making

unbelievable money and I still managed

to get out of there with a sizable

amount of money but if I had discovered

online dating and had I never done the

word don't get me wrong I love my time

at their Soho there were some wild crazy

fucking times there but that place was

notoriously expensive it was Oh Mike it

was ridiculously expensive it was worth

every penny but it wasn't it was just a

oh my god good information there Carl

because she brings up a lot of good

points in terms of being in Vegas the

tourism definitely matters man and the

thing is is when and I tell people all

the time if you live in Vegas or if you

go to Vegas you have to understand

McCarran International Airport dude

there are new hot girls landing for the

first time in Las Vegas every hour on

the hour at McCarran it never got I also

like cities with universities or a lot

of students for that reason

jesus-fuckin'-christ Phoenix Arizona

there's like five colleges around

Phoenix and because it's always hot

Phoenix roll never wear anything fucking

you have the benefits of you have a lot

of girls 18

about 23 24 who are getting there who

are away from their parents for the

first time and were constantly drinking

there you go listen that is prime USDA

choice high quality meat let's go back

to Las Vegas and area code 702 Oh God my

man pine in the house what's going on

brother hey doing not much it's out to

you and big shout out to Carl who I'm

looking forward to eventually meeting at

the 21 convention one of these days I

just guessing that with Donovan I'm

gonna hire a guy to go there ask me next

year I mean if you're willing to pay I'm

saying I'm open now here's the thing

anyway Carl or pine at in the same room

at the same time I think not them sure

so the truth has done is actually black

label logic he just got hell of a skills

to throw his voice listen I'm a Ben I'm

adventurous by trade I'm a ventriloquist

by night play or my day ventriloquist my

night you guys know that goes okay okay

well anyway uh so no I've had a just

call for you don't have an update on

that I haven't thrown open or I was

using oh yeah I've got five more hits on

that what ad but more girls ask me what

that's about

yep I'm using the basically cut Ivan

Thrones tweet down his if you can't

carry your woman over your shoulder up

some stairs either you're weak where

she's fat and either which is an

unattractive I think an imp lunder her

so I just kind of chopped it up and I've

had five girls open me with oh what's

this about there you go well they're

open offer if you're interested kind of

a my own takes instead of Anthony's I'm

gonna come all over your tits thing I

think it's a little bit a little bit

more interesting for me well Anthony's

opener is I'm gonna come on your face

and make it and make you my girlfriend I

think that's it Claire you my girlfriend

the the phrasing is very I've actually

fucked two girls off that opener by the

way that's yes we gotta get we gotta

give it you got to give Anthony Johnson

some residuals you got to get him some

some residuals on that so how do we give

them the sexual pussy again

yeah so keep going well no I mean I've


to book to meet up tonight one I'm

heading to you right now and then

another one about an hour after that so

if the first one doesn't pan out well

got my backup hey listen maybe they both

show up right you never know hey well

they can try and work a threesome

I'm the work area go there you go now

we're thinking now we're thinking we are

solution we are a solution that oriented

program here on TS are alive pine thanks

for checking in yeah you got to let us

know what good one dick it what happens

with these two girls yeah alright then I

got a question here from Armando Moreno

says hey Carl would you mind revealing

your age actually I'll take this one

Carl is 87 years old he is in fantastic

shape he will be 100 years old in the

year was 2030

yeah or I'm sorry yep and no in the Year

2031 he'll be 100 years old that's all

of these 911 for two oh five five three

five six is the number call if you want

to get in on the conversation um give me

one second because I saw a really go so

red beast says for my Tendo bio bio I

got the first to take I got the firs or

first to take me taking a selfie in a

smart casual you know Pakistani clothes

the next couple of pics are me

cosplaying with some hb9 female

cosplayers and the recs are at rest or

just regular pics what are your thoughts

on that I'm not sure if I'd use the the

chicken it can work for you can always

also work against you because on one

hand it's pre-selection on the other

hand if they those girls are way are if

they're nice they're gonna be hotter

than most girls out there and most girls

are gonna be like can I compete with her

yeah who is that is that his girlfriend

is that his sister what's their

situation so it can like it's not like

when you go to the club and you have

like four girls around you that's

different because that works differently

right right cuz you're at the club but I

agree I think I've never thought of it

that way if you're specifically on

tinder not that this is gonna be bad but

it's potential it could potentially

scare off anyone below a nine so if you

have if you have pictures of you up

there with girls who are eights than any

girl below an eight which is the vast


girls on sinner they mean like an I

can't really compete on that level I

can't really compete so I'm gonna swipe

left because I don't think that this guy

is gonna be turned on by me the same

thing goes with you know you want to

think aspirationally on Twitter on

tinder I mean so you want to look to you

know you don't want a picture with you

and your buddies slamming beers but if

you have a good picture of you looking

at the sunset at a wine tasting oh yeah

that's a great picture because that's

gonna make her think oh if I get with

this guy then you know I could be next

to him at that wine tasting right I

could be next to him at the sunset with

a glass of chardonnay in our hands okay

you're not gonna have a girl being like

oh I wish I could be there with his

buddies playing grab-ass drinking pops

gonna be there playing darts with his

buddies and if that's the kind of girl

if and here's the thing if you if you

say hey man you know I got a picture of

me playing pool but but is we're fucking

chugging beers playing quarters if that

works for you you're gonna get masculine

tight girls who were and I can't stand

girls who are I can't stand girls who

are comfortable at bars comfortable

playing pool playing darts and chugging

beers uh-uh

no no no King mixes girl drink me on

their table a couple of weeks back that

was not a good experience no no never

never is a good experience all right um

well I don't think we have any more

callers any final thoughts before we

kill this thing Carl well I just think a

lot of things with tender game is just

having like with all game it's about

being having analytical analytical

structured approach to it because you

don't want to be like the old guys who

were scripted but you want to kind of

keep track of how are your stats doing

are you getting better at are you

getting laid more with less approaches

are you doing more approaches where is

your problem in your sales funnel

because if you're probably miss

approaches you're never gonna get laid

right right do it but you can do 10,000

approaches and if you've done a hundred

approaches and you haven't gotten laid

then your problem isn't approaching then

then it's with some other part of your

game and you want to kind of keep a


a chain is only as strong as its weakest

link and if you have a really weak link

at some point in your sales funnel

that's going to kill you and you would

probably have a lot more benefit if you

work out that kink instead of just doing

more approaches because you're good at

approaching we want to do what we're

good at but if you hate squatting you

should probably be squatting yeah that

makes perfect sense if it you know you

know when one of my crazy spin

instructors spin Bob he's a fucking nut

job and I'm and it's been a while since

I've done spin class but like I'm

convinced that this guy is on cocaine

when he does spin class but he says

something that's very it's it's the

cesspool and it's cliche but it's true

if it doesn't challenge you it's not

gonna change you and if you have

problems going out and approaching women

than ya then you're not gonna get laid

because that's where it all starts but I

will say this one thing that a lot of

men should do to get over approach

anxiety and me and Mike me and my

homeboys actually used to do this

there's actually a couple of things you

can play a game with you and your

homeboys go to a bar club whatever and

see who can get blown out the worst

opener with cheesy pickup lines are you

google because I've been searching for

you all night are you from Tennessee

because you're the only ten I see nice

shoes wanna fuck I mean just go for the

absolute most embarrassing blowout

possible and whoever has whoever has the

worst or whoever finishes at the bottom

doesn't bite drinks like whoever and if

you get a phone number you're buying

rounds for everybody that makes it fun

it makes it fearless so you are trying

to fail another way to destroy approach

anxiety is go out and approach a hundred

girls in ten days and try to fail with

all of them the idea is not to get the

phone number you want to go for broke go

for the failure that way when you do

fail you don't take it you don't really

take it very long okay well I was trying

to fail by the time you get to the

hundredth failure you are impervious to

getting blown out so when you actually

start approaching for real

all right you fail guess what you know

what I feel 100 times the last ten days

what's another approach and you're used

to just by virtue of sheer volume you

used to approaching girls so those are

two quick ways that you can get over

approach anxiety

yeah and also I I had one of those

things with the one thing I noticed I

discovered what it takes to get reported

on tinder and it's not spam message in

50 girls with I want to come on your

face and declare you my girlfriend it's

telling a girl that you are way too

bitchy for a five that got me reported

in life two minutes oh wow you are way

too bitchy for a five see that if you

heard a girl's ego she will report you

it's so funny girls always report dudes

thanks to the Internet girls can now

like they can report you they can get 2d

platformer Denny way he is Carl from

Black Label Logic you guys can check out

his website Black Label logic calm he's

gonna have his second book he's shooting

for December we don't know how old Carl

is he could be 29 he could be 89 no one

really knows you can follow him on

twitter at black label logic of cornell

are you gonna be on the red man group

tomorrow no yeah I'm planning on it so

I'll be there unlike this it doesn't

really mess with my I had to push a day

to get here today so good good stuff man

it's listen you're always in the power

position when you have you're always in

the power position when you can flake on

guys or when you can flake on girls that

means you have the ultimate abundance

mentality Carl thanks for making time

for us tonight man you really really

dropped a lot of knowledge here tonight

now thanks for having me Donovan always

a fun show to do longtime fan of the

show as you know absolutely that's gonna

do it for this edition of TS are alive

again you guys can catch myself and Carl

black label logic on tomorrow's red man

group episode 40 at 10 o'clock Eastern

ten o'clock in the morning Eastern 7:00

Pacific we're gonna talk about how men

unplug from the matrix and I think

that's probably going to morph into red

man group origins I think a lot of us

are gonna tell stories about how we

unplugged from the matrix how we came to

find the red pill so be sure to tune in

for that

again that's gonna do it for this

edition of TRS are alive we'll see you

next time thanks for watching

English (auto-generated)

Donovan SharpeComment