The phenomenon of Red Pill Groupies with Rollo Tomassi (Episode 374)

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what's up guys it's room and Donovan

sharp I just realize literally just

realized that that that entire listen

that entire intro was completely muted

because my dumb ass my thumb has muted

myself look I'm trying to be all

professional I'm trying to I'm trying to

do a professional show are we just

talking about off air oh my god yeah

listen roll and I were just talking hey

you know we got to step up our studio

game and be more professional and you

know it's interesting before we get into

this a lot of guys you know and don't

get me wrong I'm not saying that you

guys don't know that you guys don't

appreciate this but I listen I love

doing what I do but there's a lot that

goes on behind the scenes man like you

guys see me running my mouth

taking phone calls but there is a lot

that happens behind the scenes there are

a lot of moving parts to what you see on

CS are alive and it's it's taken me

quite some time to sort of get the hang

of it and even listen even now you know

the production takes a long time to

accomplish number one number two even

still I'll still make mistakes like you

know I got this big fancy intro and

muted myself and I'm like okay why is

roll on the screen I figured it out

what's going on guys it's room and

Donovan sharp welcome to episode 374 of

TSR live your daily dose of red pill

truth wisdom and awareness we are

brought to you in part by happy hippo

herbals and of course 1821 man-made calm

for the best beard products in the game

go to 1821 man-made calm to step up your

beard game alright let's go ahead and

get to it man my guest tonight doesn't

need an introduction he is the godfather

of the manosphere he is rollo tomassi

rollo listen man thanks for making the

time for us today we have an interesting

topic to get into I figured you would

yeah you know how that goes yeah so what

we're going to talk about today Rollo's

we're gonna talk about red pill groupies

now anytime there's a male-dominated

space females wanted right what this is

this a standard operating procedure this

is nothing new we get it we understand

females want to be a part of they want

to be a part of a thing of cool things

that are going on and

men are doing most of the cool shit they

end up becoming a part they end up

trying to become a part of what's going

on here well we've got we now have an

influx of females into the manosphere we

got a lot of females who call themselves

red pill women and then of course we

have you know these Mogga chicks these

trad cons all of a sudden now that they

see that the men who have their shit

together endorse what we endorsed now

they want to say all right we're red

bill women make America great again I

don't even listen I don't even know if

we're considered to be alright but you

get the idea

of course I leave this off by saying

that women try to get in with us they

want to be a part of who we are but at

least in the red man group we're not

having out I'm definitely not having it

I know red pill guys or I know content

creators who regularly have women on

their show I'm not a part of it I'm not

gonna make an appearance with a woman

because that's just not something I'm

gonna do oh my god Donna being her

afraid no dude I don't want to have to

take Advil throughout the show anyway so

my crowning the where all this started

was when kitten holiday called into the

Redman group in episode 17 and I didn't

expect her to call in and listen I let

her run her mouth and then you know she

asked if she could say one more thing I

said no you gotta go and hung up on her

and then of course she started this

whole beef with the Redman group what

she wanted to do Rollo is she wanted to

call in and she wanted to impress us

right she wanted to impress us so much

that she wanted to eventually become a

regular caller like hey here's kitten

Holliday she's gonna give her thoughts

on whatever we're talking about hey

kitten why don't you become a VIP why

don't you be a VIP guest at the 21

convention now kitten would deny that

this is what she was trying to do but

this is what her and other women like

her try to do why in the world now

here's the thing kitten holidays not a

red pill and she's red pill groupie

right so why do women try to give the

impression that their red pill women but

all they are really is just hangers and

they're just groupies they're just

looking to bang

red no guys I think maybe we need to

make a distinction between groupie and

quote-unquote red pill woman I don't

necessarily believe that there is such a

thing as a red pill woman simply because

once you start discussing red pill

topics and truths and and especially for

the ones that are a bit more

unflattering of the feminine once you

start discussing that you're having a

different conversation than for say

someone or like a woman who is like

their because they think that by

agreeing with you or by being your fan

or whatever they think that that's going

to get them in your into your good

graces and I think that really what

we're seeing right now is the mass fear

has become a male space I mean obviously

it's a male space

I have always I mean from the very

beginning I I started my blog based on a

lot of the same rules that I used to go

by when I was a moderator it's on the

Soul Swap forums okay

I never talked about I never talked

about religion I never talked about

politics I never talked about them

directly okay never talked about you

know we try to abstain I guess from like

personal insults although that doesn't

really work out all the time and

everything else but again trying to

bring that across one of the other

things is that I brought over from from

the from so swab was the idea that I'm

there I'm not against having women

actually comments on my blogs I have

always had a nun moderated blog comment

system unless you spam my my comment

threads or you are a blatant troll who

just keeps repeating things over and

over again pretty much okay with that in

fact I really want people to call in an

equal call and I want people to chime in

and disagree with me because that's what

that's how we grow ideas and we have

this commitment I think now in what is

now known as the manosphere as sort of

hashing out ideas and sometimes those

ideas are flattering and sometimes those

ideas are not sometimes when I you know

if people call it and say you know what

your your premise of or your you know

whatever you're talking about when it

comes to hypergamy Yurok okay fine tell

me why I want explain to me why I'm

wrong I think that when men come

together and they start talking about

stuff like that we're more I mean if

we're if we're arguing and debating in a

an honest way were more we're more

concerned with coming to terms with what

that idea is and you know and sort of

hashing that out whereas for women it's

how did that idea make them feel and one

of the first complaints that I get when

when I'm talking about things and

whether when a woman comes into the mix

is well I didn't like the way you

delivered that you're right but you

thought exactly it said we didn't like

your tone and I was like well this isn't

your show but this isn't your you know

where you're gonna be and so when when I

talk to when we bring in women you have

to understand that the the conversation

changes I have I just posted it here in

the in the chat I have a great post it

was actually I think it was also in my

second book it's called male space and

in that post I tried to sort of define

how women come into male space and how

they change that male space right now

since we live in a feminine primary

social order

women want to want to things out of male

space people say well why would any

woman want to come into a male male

space and why would they want you

exactly what do we want from you if

you're wrong we're not gonna bother with

it well I see a lot of women wanting to

wanting into the manosphere right now

and this is true not just for the master

but for any quote unquote male space

right so the first thing is is that

women want to be the first woman to be

included in that male space ah there we

go

you if you take something like if you

like you know who Danica Patrick is

right if Erika Patrick wants to race

cars right she's a NASCAR too right

she's in NASCAR she's well I forget

whatever I don't even know what she's

racing in and it doesn't really matter

because nobody cares about what it is

that she does they care about that she's

the first woman to do that and so she

comes in and she's like okay well

NASCAR's of all male space and I can

drive to look guys I'm one of the guys

and you know a woman can do it just as

good as a man can right there's that see

that's the point that's the purpose of

her coming into that is to prove that

she is as good as any of the other guys

which of course is completely false

she's just happens to be the

woman who was in there so it's not her

trying to prove how good she is or her

dedication or her passion for driving or

a passion for whatever whatever it is

that she's including herself into here

it is that she wants to be the first

woman that's in there so that's that's

that's number one so the number two part

is women are overseers in the locker

room

so once women have been allowed into

that male space women take it upon

themselves to now become the overseers

of that male space so once a woman is

welcomed into that you know that it

doesn't matter really what it is like

you can so you can say it's it's guys

who are in the gaming community you can

say it's guys we're in a sports team you

can say it's guys what whatever that

male space happens to be once they allow

that woman in there women then decide

that it's no longer about whatever the

express purpose of that group is it's

about how well they accommodate women in

that group now so it becomes less about

whatever this is really easy to describe

in terms of like say the American

workplace or Western workplaces right

now we have accommodated women into the

Western workplace because we feel like

it's the right thing to do okay well we

can talk about that and a whole nother

show but but once they come in there

then whatever it is that those men

collected together to do to have a

express purpose to do it that woman

comes in and decides that now that she's

the first woman to do it now it should

be not about whatever they came together

to do whatever they came together to

produce whatever they came together to

that they have all have a passion about

it's about include who can be the most

inclusive of women in that group now so

that's why you see we're in when a woman

is in a woman is added to that all-male

mix the performance of whatever it is

those guys came together to do declines

because they're trying now to appease

whatever the female sensibilities are

within that particular group Walker it

will and that see that there and you

have well you think is then you have

guys who want to

trying the other by being the most pro

feminine pro inclusive guy that they

possibly can be and they start policing

the thoughts of the other guys that are

within that group right so if you let's

just say for instance you've got guys

who have this all-male group and like

I've said this before is that men women

talk and men do when men do they come

together to do something together right

they come together to fix a car to to

play on a field to build a house to you

know to do something that's constructive

and to do something that builds

something in their environment that is

so they see the opportunity within the

environment to build something on that

so they come together as a team and they

put it together right so that's one of

the reasons why male sports with me team

sports tend to be male-dominated because

we can write and we work together as a

team and we want to build something and

we all share that common passion

ultimately the best that's why we you

know like I'm sure you have hobbies as

well I have hobbies and when I get

together with guys we're usually

focusing on that hobby and then as a

result of that we might communicate or

we might become very good friends it's

one of the reasons like I can make

friends with men very very easy because

I have something that I share with them

but what happens is once you add a woman

into that mix into that male space then

like just like you said guys want to be

the guy that is most inclusive the guy

who wants to prove to her and a white

knight and to bring her into into the

fold because not because she shares that

common passion so much as it is that the

guy wants to to prove to the world that

that you know whatever it is that they

do whatever that organization used to do

is now the organization that does that

but we're more inclusive we have more we

have women here right and what happens

is that dynamic sort sort of decays so

you'll have that group kind of split up

because of that inclusivity or because

we brought a woman into that mix the

guys who have that really solid passion

about whatever it is they came together

to do those guys end up leaving the

group and they go off to do their own

thing whereas the guys who have welcomed

women into that group and brought them

in there and decided that the group's

purpose shouldn't be about whatever it

was that they originally started to do

should be about including women in

whatever that purpose used to be about

and so ends up becoming their goal or

that their focus on that whereas the

guys who are just together and they're

just about that one that one passionate

purpose those guys will usually end up

and outperform that other that other set

of guys that they were we're getting a

lot of comments in the chat

I'd like at least two or three guys I've

said this kind of thing happens in the

military all the time another perfect

example of that right I have I've had

and sports teams is another thing one of

the reasons I here's a great example as

well the Boy Scouts yes right yes yeah

it used to be just about the boys and

now what's what I find interesting is

that in trying to be inclusive

now the Girl Scouts are actually suing

the Boy Scouts because they're kind of

infringing on their copyright now or

what because they don't they're what

this was they they have the Boy Scouts

and the Girl Scouts and once the Boy

Scouts said hey we're gonna be inclusive

and we're gonna get more girls into this

whole thing they drop the name boy again

remove the man and they drop the name

and they just call it the scouts well

there are girls in the scouts so that is

a trademark copyright infringement of

the Girl Scouts registered trademark

that's been around hurt you know if

these right so so what's funny is with

all of these same intentions exactly

what I was just saying right now with

all those good intentions of being

inclusive now by doing that they are

risking the the coherency and of their

of their group and they're going to end

up having to find either they're gonna

have to call it the Boy Scouts or

they're gonna have to call it something

else it can't be the Scouts because it

will conflict with the Girl Scouts and

so in they're trying to be inclusive

they end up slitting their own wrists

and paying themselves because they

wanted to do that rather than say you

know what it's okay that we have

all-male groups it's okay that we have

all of that and I think it's just

recently he was this year actually

Harvard decided that they were going to

ban all team sex groups or organizations

like extracurricular organizations on

the campus

well what happened was the feminist

groups just flew off the handle

and decided that you know we need to

have these groups we need to have

all-female groups but we don't want

those men to have their groups right it

breaks up the continuity of the group I

talked about this in my my speech at the

21 convention how the way that feminism

and the feminine imperative disempowers

men is by infiltrating that group

assimilating that group making it not

about men coming together and doing

something but about making it as

inclusive as possible for those way and

that's how they break that up that's how

they why do they do this though like why

is it that women want to break it up I

mean I have my I mean listen I have my

hypothesis but why do you think I well

okay um honestly I think it's because of

the first part okay when women get into

that they want to be like remember

remember when Augusta decided that they

were going to allow women into it's

there because it was an all-male Golf

Club and only Tiger Woods could be in

there and what did they do they went

they said oh uh Condoleezza Rice we'd

like you to be a member of a good golf

course it was a symbolic thing too as to

say hey look you know to prove to the

world that they were actually you know

giving away this are giving up on this

whole boys club thing what the thing is

is women don't give up on the girls club

right men are supposed to give up on the

boys club but women are not supposed to

give up on their own exclusive women's

sake that's why we have like these women

in business groups right now they said

well we're gonna get a women in business

come convention going on and we're gonna

all talk about how women can you know

make a better cupcake or some shit like

that right they want to to focus on

helping and empowering women to be small

business owners great okay but nothing

like that for there's no if it was if it

was about equality like I said we would

call it equal ism rather than feminism

and that's so we have all this special

dispensation for women when it comes to

keeping their own group and keeping a

sexually exclusive group but when men do

that it's sexist and when men do that

it's dangerous and it's an evidence of

toxic masculinity so what I see I think

in the logs I've I think in the larger

meta scale of things the reason that

women want to break up that continuity

between

men is because it makes men weaker and

that's one of the reasons like something

that like the the 21 convention is so

threatening to the to the female status

quo to the to the what I you know the

guy knock recei if you want to call it

that it's threatening when guys get

together just as guys to talk about

things because they they understand that

men coming together and cooperating

together are way more powerful right arm

they are broken up and when they're

right so that's that's issue number one

the other issue is okay so if we can

define the manosphere as male space then

why is it that we have women that want

to come into the male space right now so

why do you think I've got a idea of why

that is well why do you think that the

manosphere is so popular amongst what

you want to call them groupies okay call

me I think really more it's you know red

pill women aren't necessarily always

trad cons but they tend to lean that way

of course yeah the reason why I think

that there are two reasons why women

like to infiltrate meal spaces the first

reason I think is the groobie reason

right and I was actually having a

conversation with a consultation client

the other day and he said the one thing

Donovan that you said that really just

blew me away is when is when you were

talking about when you roll oh we're

talking about religion and your fourth

book and he said the one thing that you

said that just blew me away that was

absolutely true is that women don't have

a belief system they don't believe in

God they don't believe that there is no

God they believe in whatever the

strongest men believe right and so the

strongest men nowadays or obviously have

red pill awareness and we are not and

we're not afraid to express our red pill

nests or red pill awareness well Sean

Sean a Tampa Sean the guitar player he

actually talked to us on the red band

group he said this he said this on my

show several times because you know he

was there with that you know we were

talking about kitten and Jose and our

little dust-up with him and her and he

says listen dude to keep it all the way

it really says women just like to be

look women want to be around guys who

have their shit together right and by

you know when they say they they want to

be around guys who have their shit

together they want to fuck these guys

you

I mean like dude like listen listen man

like listen I've got I've had groupies

since since the return of kings days you

know what I mean they're Democrats

they're feminists it doesn't matter what

their belief system is do they see that

I am unabashedly they see that I'm

unabashedly unapologetic about what I

believe it and I don't give a fuck about

anybody's feelings women like to be

around that that's the first reason

the second reason I believe that women

like to infiltrate and subsequently

break up the groups is that they know

we're onto something right like the red

pill community wouldn't be under such a

scrutiny if we didn't know what the fuck

what you're talking about

right if if the red pill community says

we need to double down on on on feminism

you know you need to take her out to

take her out on dates treat her like a

princess even though she hasn't earned

that um you know forgive her of her

sexual past we need to double down guess

what these bitches wouldn't have a

problem with that right it won't have a

problem that because they they know okay

well alright these guys aren't a threat

right like some other like some other

guys but they know that the things we

talked about roll dude they listen to

the Redman girl they listen to TSR alive

deep in their minds they'll never admit

they'll never admit this out loud but

they say shit these guys are onto

something like the jig is up like we

can't have these guys out here spilling

all of our secrets we've we've had the

we have had the we've had the the gender

advantage we've had the the ratio

advantages and we've had the mental

advantage the average 17 year old girl

is at least a decade and a half and a

half ahead in the game than the average

17 year old boy right you take the

average listen average 15 year old girl

right average 15 or boy dude she's miles

ahead in the game women women keep this

advantage throughout life we're the guys

that point out hey you want to know

something this is not really how it

works these women know that we're on to

something that's that's the second

reason why the Ashton I would I would I

agree with that I would also throw out a

few other caveats to go without the

other thing I think when I was just

talking about how women need to be or

feel like they need to be the overseers

in the locker room I think what you have

is you have women who want to be in the

manosphere because they see it as a

niche sexual marketplace they see these

guys who quote-unquote have their shit

together and they want to do okay but

then once they get into once they hear

me once they read me and they go you

know this guy is right but I don't like

what do you know some of this stuff is

unflattering so I can just get my I can

sort of work my way into it in there you

know work my way into this male space I

can change the narrative of this space

so it's like they want to get in and

then when I say hey okay hey guys what

you're doing is great we want you to man

up when they all want a better beta okay

they all want you to make the

quote-unquote man up because they love

the aspects particularly the red pill

where it's it's all about

self-improvement and it's all about

becoming a better man and then what they

see is they you know Mick tousle you

will will hit me on this but that what

women see is they think that men are

doing this for women they think that

these guys are self improving because

they want to get better with women or

they want to and maybe that's true in a

lot of the beginning it's true in the

beginning yeah and then you and then you

move into other things that's the

problem is like once you become more and

more red pill aware you become more

sensitive to being able to to vet women

and to to decide whether or not you want

to be part of you know you want to be

part of a woman's sexual strategy do I

really want to fulfill a role within

like hypergamy for for a particular

woman right so when they see that and

they go oh shit they're giving away the

farm they're giving away all of this

information like I had a guy who and I

think I've told you this story before I

had a guy who was one of my readers and

his girlfriend snatched up my book and

grabbed it she says give me that when

the rational male you know she goes she

goes I'll be the judge of that you know

and so she goes and she reads it for a

week and she comes back to the guy and

she takes it she tosses it down on the

desk she goes everything in this book is

true and you shouldn't know any of it it

was and that kind of describes really

what I think that red pill women have to

go through because they want men to know

some of it sir no listen they want men

to know just enough to keep that

advantage over us right but as soon it

listen its knowledge is power

as soon as men now was

there are a lot of men who are red

pillow air being red pillow air is not

enough you got to live that red pill

life but even if you have the knowledge

and you actually have the balls to

exercise that red pill awareness guess

what advantage gone well and the other

thing is yeah exactly and then the other

thing is I think that once guys become

red pill aware I always tell them to be

very very careful about making their

girlfriends or their wives or the women

that they would like to you know would

like to Sarge I I tell them be very

careful about revealing what you know

about the red pill because women want to

play the game they don't want to have

somebody tell them about the game that

they're playing right and it's true it's

called the observer effect there's a

Hawthorne effect right observing a

process will change that process so if

you start popping off I know exactly

what you're doing right now that's 24

hours or Ashley you know going and and

guys want to do that because they think

haha gotcha you know they do this is the

beginning they won't do that and they

think that well you know women will

appreciate that right though your red

pill women oh yeah you do got me you

know but they don't understand that by

doing that they ruin their game they

ruin everything because now everything

becomes about the game itself I would

still guys play with her and play with

her you know saying I'm saying oh yes

play with her and play with her and guys

you know people don't don't get that

when I emphasize those work but guys

need to if if you think you are dealing

with a red pill woman do not reveal the

game to her don't you know there's

there's a lot of rules that I have in

the nine iron rules of Tomasi one of

those I think really should be is do not

reveal you what you know about the red

pill to wait to any woman particularly

if you want to be intimate with that

woman at some point because she's going

to think about it being as part of the

game like observing a process changes

the process so if you're making it

obvious to her you know that's what's

gonna say though so once you have the

manosphere established and once you have

that as a male space women want to get

into that because they want to change

the narrative they want to they want it

to be more about them they want guys to

have 100% responsibility and 0%

authority

all right one they see red pill

awareness making men feel as if they

have some authority or they have some

power over women's hypergamy or over

their sexual strategy or over the game

that they you know partly they can say

you know what I'm not gonna be a beta

and waiting I'm gonna do what I'm gonna

do maybe I'm gonna go my own way right

I'm still gonna say yeah I think really

most guys can't help but go their own

way wants to become red pillow with how

you go about doing that it's really the

question but so women see this happening

and they go you know what these guys

might select me out they might go you

know what that that chick who would had

that girl with a with you know a baby

daddy and two kids I don't want to have

anything to do with that I mean rich at

rich Cooper and I talk about this all

the time where it's like stay away from

single mommies well that too for a red

pill single mommy

she can't have guys listening to that

she can't have you know women or men

avoiding single mothers in fact so what

happens is then they come into the

narrative they change that around and

they say no really the red pill is about

marrying single mothers and it's about

you know stepping up and taking over the

responsibilities for a guy who didn't

step up you know and they write they

want to build all of that old social

conventions into the red pill and then

they want to decide what is red pill and

what is not red pill and that's why I

lock horns with people like kitten

that's why I lock horns after babe love

okay all right listen who the hell is

dr. babe love like I just saw her name

of the chat they said she's totally grab

no idea who the fuck this bitch is I'll

send you some I'll give you okay she got

like the screen name already reeks of

her she on it yeah exactly she wanted

and you're right she wanted to come into

the red pill space and she wanted to say

yeah okay you guys are all right except

for this this this and this and tell you

if you accepted all of this then you

would be red pill right and everything

and every article is some sort of blue

pill conditioning that we had to awaken

guys from the first place and then

you've got purple pill life coaches

saying exactly the same thing because

they know that though all those

comforting ideals of the blue pill that

women want guys to accept are part of

you know they it keeps men sort

chasing their tails right they think

it's but they're not really red pill and

so women will pile into that so I also

that's one part the other part is I

think that women see this as a niche

sexual marketplace yes writing to me I

don't see too many maybe you can correct

me on this but I don't see too many

younger women who insist on being that

there are red pill women I don't see too

many of the most single mommies they

tend to be or they tend to be divorcees

or and a little bit older okay like well

I'm talking you know past their prime

I'll pass the wall I don't see too many

too hot 22 year olds or 23 year olds

going out a red pill woman they don't

say that it's it's usually women who are

trying to figure out how they can get

into the good graces of men who they

idealize as being a good long-term

prospect and they see red pill men as

being that because part of that red pill

awakening is self-improvement

it's about being a better guy it's about

being the best version of yourself you

can be right but that's where they want

it to end

they they they don't want the red pill

to include all of the unflattering

things

yes that that fruits about them that

exactly and so they want to cut it off

right there and that's how red pill

women end up becoming really purple pill

women because they want to redefine that

and unfortunately there are guys who

will get into this and they'll go oh

well you know I want to get into the

good graces of these chicks I haven't

gotten laid or I or maybe they're like

in they're in their 40s and they're

become awakened and they are coming out

of a bad divorce and they want to get

they want to get after it with you know

use up chick they want to get after with

with a single mommy and they want to

feel okay they want us to give them

permission to date a single mother

you're never going to get permission

from me today the single mother dude

listen you'll get permission for me to

bang a single Bob but dating them no let

me point out a concept I've been to the

sales game for a while and area code

five seven one I see in the queue I'm

gonna get you in just a second the the

women want to they want you to play with

them they want to play with you that

concept you were talking about in the

sales game

in training class they always tell you

customers every customer wants to buy

but no customer wants to be sold in

other words when they make when when

they make a decision to make a

big-ticket purchase like I've sold the

cars I've sold mattresses I've sold

$50,000

you know housing project jobs etc etc

they don't want to be sold they want

they want the impression that they made

the decision based on what they thought

no slimy salesperson is ever gonna talk

me in to paying ten thousand dollars for

a mattress or thirty five thousand

dollars for a roof no sir I'm making

this decision on my accord well it's the

same thing with women with women trying

to cut out the good parts trying to cut

out the parts that are unflattering and

they don't want to know how the sausage

is made right they don't want to know

like the old school mystery method right

the rst method hey you know I mean I

mean that that whole pu8 listen that

certainly has its agencies now but I but

like I always say girls have the

internet too right they know dude they

can smell the Neil Strauss

off of you they can smell the Tyler

Durden on you right like they can smell

that so you have to become congruent

with what you're saying this is how you

this is how you have the organic

presentation of what's going on if a

girl thinks for at any time that what

you are doing is canned or rehearsed she

thinks she's being manipulated rather

than just inorganic something happening

right so if a girl says oh god she

fucked Donovan yeah oh my god he swept

me off my feet it was like next thing

you know we were having coffee next

thing you know I was in his apartment it

was just what there was nothing I could

do but they're not gonna they're not

gonna go to their girlfriends and say

you know what this guy used this Neil

Strauss Strauss method on me I knew what

he was doing but I said I said fuck it

he's good job I may as well fuck him

that's why they don't want us to do porn

effect absurd observing the process will

change that process when thing about

like when you're in you're in psychology

too than one of the reasons they do

blind tests in cycle psychological

experiments is because once that person

knows that they're you know the the

basis of that of that test or whatever

it is that they're going through they

will change the behavior they that's one

of the reasons like when you ask a woman

what do you find attractive in a man

she'll tell you what she finds a

Proactive in a man / what seems good

like what are you what are the right

answers here there's a difference

between arousal and attraction so when

you say what is it what do you look for

in a man oh he's got to be funny he's

gotta have a good heart he's got a you

know be like it's all these things that

would make for a good long-term match

for her not what arouses her right

because she's saying that because she

knows that she's under surveillance she

knows that girl's in there or people and

within shouting distance are gonna hear

what she has to say so that it's it's

almost like an advertisement for the

right guy right and so when when women

yeah what you were saying about what

they know they're being sold to if they

know they're being experimented with if

they know if they know that there's

being a game played women want to play

the game they really do and and I kept

telling guys like all the time I was

saying well I don't understand how I can

internalize all of this game you know

especially when it's a script for me

well you're never going to internalize

it if you see it as a script write

internalize it as part of who you are

and what your natural reflects and that

takes time and the other thing long time

or what we're talking about uh you know

here it is we are in 2018 and we're

still talking about mystery and Neil

Strauss where to put all the stuff

that's what everybody's sort of

preconception about PUA is they think

it's you know fuzzy you know fuzzy hats

they think it's like this you know laser

laser Leisure Suit Larry is what they

think right people need to understand

that that pua has evolved it is so much

more it's so it's so it's not that

schmaltzy kind of you know

let's go peacocks today okay you have a

big ass but one of the reasons I stuck

to say that those those game techniques

didn't work and they don't you know yeah

I heard you talking with them with Carl

from Black Label Logic all that stuff

still works but we have to we have to

understand that the the principle behind

those scripts work for a reason and yes

in take you can still app you can change

up those scripts but they still have to

play on the same reason a same

psychological reason that those things

work so you're not going to go

out into the club's you're not gonna see

a guy looking like mr. e or unless he's

you know if playing in a band or

something like that you're not going to

see that happen anymore but it's

interesting how critics love to still

use them as well you're always pick up

guys you know and yeah and they and they

think in terms of a mystery method you

know circa 2002 or 2003 it's so much

different now

all right 9 1 4 2 O 5 5 3 5 6 is the

number to call if you want to get in on

the conversation let us go to the phone

lines area code 5 7 1 you're on live at

Donovan roll oh go ahead yeah yep ok

yeah I'm the last Red Bank Group I've

heard that you're coming here to

Colorado I would love to meet you in

person

like you know more about your schedule

yeah I don't know exactly when that's

going to be but if you it might be after

the new year it might be in January I

got a lot of after I had afraid the 21

convention I had a lot of people hit me

up to do things I got a a group in in

Colorado I got a group in San Diego I've

got a group in Salt Lake City of all

places a group in Arizona and they all

want me to sort of make sort of a

whirlwind tour through those places so I

will probably be doing that

in the new year just watch my just watch

my website or my blog or just you know

I'll announce it when when the time

comes but I don't have any set dates for

it just yet I'm also going down to Los

Angeles to visit with Sam Botta with I

think middle of this month too so I'm

actually going and doing a little bit

more now so I'll be I'll be on the road

I guess good good stuff

late you know yeah thanks for the call

area code 5 7 when I remember and by the

way 5 7 1 if you're still listening do

not come and ask for his autograph

during breath dude this is so funny so

at the 21 convention I think you me and

Devin I think we had breakfast together

I think like three like three street

mornings or whatever we just happen to

be at the same table at the same time

whatever great and so on two different

occasions like it happened on

consecutive mornings guys like a row

can I get to design this book and role

is like yeah can I finish my can I

finish my bacon oh that was great all

right listen I'm you know I'm just

busting his balls him I think it was a

man role role as a fantastic guy and

I'll bend over backwards to give you of

course

yeah personal right you know signature

whatever absolutely all right let's go

back to the phone lines Eric

OOP I just hung up on him I'm sorry Eric

owed five 100 definitely call back I

totally just hung up on you my bad let

me ask you now we talked about dr. babe

love we talked about we've talked about

kitten Holiday clear I don't know

anything about dr. Mable abut kitten

holidays she's she's a groupie right

what do you think of this Brandon Jones

and a few other people want to know

about the CLC

book reviews now she made an appearance

in my chat either

what's today Tuesday she made an

appearance in my chat yesterday and I

told him right out the gate

hey listen CLC like listen like if

you're a woman I don't need to see or

hear you right and she you know she

heated me right but she seems to be

making the rounds she actually called

into the red mad girl I I don't

necessarily have a problem with I think

if you want to be in some way inclusive

I'm not like against having women in

this mail space it's just that

understand that this is the mail space

and understand that we are going to be

the authorities in this mail space and

we are going to come together and talk

about this kind of stuff and we're going

to come to conclusions that are going to

be unflattering about female the female

psyche and female nature especially like

there's there's a lot of stuff like if I

talk about hypergamy women will agree

with that more or less because they have

pretty much embraced it and embraced

open hypergamy now they don't want to

talk about the the more the harsher

realities of that they want to sort of

sugarcoat that thing but then for the

most part they'll agree with that but

then if I say something about all women

are are solipsistic and here are the

here the reasons why I say that here's

that here's the the studies and the

evolutionary psychology and the premise

behind that if you want to talk to me

about that fine but women don't want to

talk about that because they think that

because

men haven't figured this stuff out that

it is now our duty to use our super

powers for good forth of for the purpose

of women and for the purpose of creating

families and for the purpose of you know

making things a better place so they're

like okay you got us yes there is such a

thing as hypergamy yes there is such

thing as female self sysm yes all that

everything you say in this book is true

and you shouldn't know any of it but you

do know it so now it's your duty as a

man to use this for the benefit of

humankind or teens really oh really like

you say stuff like that women want to

then come in and take over the narrative

so if you want to be a woman in a red

pill space if you want your opinions to

be heard you need to sit down and listen

to men's reasoning and you need to do so

from a rational perspective rather than

an emotional perspective because women

when that I've written about this before

in the past um all human beings have

interpretive processes so when when we

have a new stimuli in our environment we

first process it through the instinctual

okay how is this you know do I need to

run from this or do I need to fight

fight this thing do I need to do

something in the most immediate sense

right now do I need to put my body in

front of the bullets that's instinct

okay then there is emotion and how does

that stimuli make you feel right because

emotion is is it is an evolved aspect of

our psyche and who we are it's not some

magical you know

woowoo spiritual shit you know I feel

like this well you know what that's

because that stimuli has made you feel

that way and so like if it's if it

triggers testosterone or triggers

oxytocin if it triggers you know fire

adrenaline if it triggers that and you

feel that it's because that stimuli is

going through your instinctual and it's

making you feel something so if I go and

like guys one of the reasons why guys go

through roid rage is because you're

fucking with your hormones right with

your you're messing with you know

something that's want to make you feel

in a certain way like if we spiked oxy

toe

we'd all feel good and loving and

everything you know so you can you can

change the way that you feel through

biological means so don't say don't the

mistake is to think of it in terms of

you know whoo whoo magical shit and then

the next process is the rational process

and that's where we take into

consideration what this what is this

stimuli mean to us and how can we use

that how can we solve a problem with

that now women tend to prioritize

emotion above reason men is the opposite

they pretend to prioritize reason above

emote okay and the only times that went

that men tend men get into these

situations when you say well that guy is

having an emotional response yes he is

because he's been trained to put emotion

as something that is as in a in a

priority order that that supersedes his

ration his rationality okay so when a

guy when when you see a kid like

Nicholas Cruise goes and his girlfriend

dumps him and he wants to kill kill the

war you know kill all the people who

look like her new boyfriend

captain emot-- response because he's

been taught that he's supposed to go to

the emotional rather than the rational

because he has not had a man in a

positive masculine role to teach him not

to go and take out a gun and shoot up

his school okay so he's having that

emotional response but it's because he's

being taught to go do that too we said

we we raise boys as if they're defective

girls so the opposite works for for

women so women tend to feel before they

think men tend to think before they feel

okay and so what happens is when women

come into the to the manosphere they

come into that male space they come in

as feelers like they think well this he

said something about solipsistic this

right how dare you think that you know

and and so then it's and that's one of

the reasons why women say I didn't like

your tone well because you didn't like

my tone it's what I was saying made you

feel something because the information

and what I was relating made you feel

that way and and so you're taking where

you may never never do they have a

counter-argument to anything that I'm

saying they're just saying I haven't

made me feel bad you know well I'm

but the facts is the facts right and so

that I think defines the manosphere is

that this this idea that we're a

marketplace of ideas where guys coming

together it is a distinctly male space

and women want to come into that and

they come in and they feel bad because

Marilla said something about solid

system a Rollo said something about

hypergamy a Rollo said that women are

innately you know X Y or Z and they that

makes them feel bad and so they want to

bring into that and so what they want to

do is they want to redefine the red pill

so that it doesn't make them feel bad

right and so the real red pill is how

women define it right and so I've seen

this especially in trad cons because try

cons jump in on this because the the

traditional conservative mindset sort of

locks in with the way that you know with

embracing the red pill up to a point

embracing it so up to the point where it

doesn't make women feel bad or bracing

red pill up to the point where it is

conducive to creating families and it's

conducive to all this social you know

stuff that gets attached to that and so

women jump into that's one of the

reasons I think that the women who want

to be called corn quote red pill women

are almost I mean uniquely trad cons and

I think that's something that we really

kind of need to to discuss is why is it

that it is so appealing to track on

women as opposed to women who are just

like screw it I'm gonna go to Coachella

and fuck whoever I want hey by the way

and Frye Bono has called make it my bad

5 what I'm gonna get to you in just two

seconds before I go to five oh no and

then 6 1 9 it's interesting that it's

interesting that you point out the fact

that women say ok we're all about these

self-improvement its etc etc right but

then you should use your powers for good

oh really like from the age of 18 to 32

you use your powers for good you can

read young and had children right like

you never fight you you haven't fucked

over 38 different guys and fucked a

hundred and seventy four guys like so

we're supposed to use our powers for

good now that you are too young to have

a choice which is why I tell guys when

they get later on in life and women are

38 40 years old and they're looking

or you know that mr. right that they

didn't get before I tell guys you are

you are merely oh it wasn't me I got it

this is a Roy see quote is you are

merely alpha agents of righteous karma

so at that point you have to be you have

to be red pill aware and game aware

enough to know what that woman has done

probably to get up to that point where

she is in life and the decisions that

she made and do not absolve her of her

decisions women it I think the if

there's one red pill aspect a red pill

truth that I think that men need to

cling to is they need to say you know

what now you know I see right there

you've got the pro you've got preventive

medicine right there if you've got that

time line in front of you and you've got

a 38 year old woman who is childless

never married and is pretending to be a

marriage counselor I would be very wary

of whatever it is that she's saying

simply because what it took for her over

the you know the course of her lifetime

to get to where she is men need to be

aware of that and they need to say you

know what I'm not gonna reward that I'm

not going to absolve that I'm not gonna

forgive that I'm not a you know I'm not

gonna say oh we've my past indiscretions

I was so crazy in college great you were

crazy in college I don't want to have

anything to do with you okay because now

the tables have turned this whole thing

when we were talking about the thought

audit all these all these guys were

pissed off and they were pissed off and

they wanted to have some sort of some

way of retaliation against women who

essentially have a sort of a control

over them because they have the

sexuality that they thirsty betas want

to have that mean they're not making

fifteen sixteen seventy thousand dollars

a year because guys aren't paying the

money you know then they'll go off to

Aruba and then you know Instagram shots

saying oh supid men paid for this right

yeah I didn't understand why those guys

why insel guys would be very pissed off

about that the tables turn when those

women get to be 35 37 years old and you

know what it's your duty as an alpha

agent of righteous karma now to reward

her for all us all the shit that she had

done to get up to that point and saying

oh like when I talk about the epiphany

phase I tell them don't you know I tell

guys I say you know what think of

where that woman has been what are the

decisions that she's made is she a

single mommy those are decisions that

she made are you ready to absolve those

decisions and say that's cool don't

worry I'll take care of that guys kids

for you are you ready to say that and

nobody wants to say that because that's

a that's a tough pill to swallow man

because I'm giving reality I'm getting

giving doses of reality of these guys

and women don't want that they don't

want to say you know what I'm a single

mother and I'm a bad bet I'm a bad bet

for the future for this guy because he

you know I've already made my decisions

so you know I need to find a beta in

waiting who's going to forgive all of

that right ohm and so what are we gonna

do we're gonna pretend that that guy is

a better man because he did that and so

what along comes Rolo and he says you

know what

once you know your value your intrinsic

value particularly when you get to your

sexual market value peak gentlemen then

that becomes a threat to them and that's

why they hate me that's why I hate you

that's why it's that it's not what it's

not like Who I am so much as its what

I'm saying is the information I'm

putting out there and they hate that

because it is counter to what it is that

they need men to believe 9 109 109 1 4 2

O 5 5 3 5 6 let's go to the phone lines

area code 5 1 0 you're on with Donovan

irrelevant but since I have you on the

line I will say one thing I think the

best way to disseminate rental

information is using comedians like

Patrice O'Neal yes one of my favorite

essence of Rollo is a mental point of

origin and Patrice O'Neal got a good

joke about that he tells his girl this

is a list of important importance in his

life he's like first if myself then my

career then my mother then you and he's

like you better watch out because my

fish is the close fifth

ma this is my portable number five and

there's tons of other similar jokes

Patrice has you know not just mental

of origin you know but other topics that

will arise about I think if you know you

can make the people laugh yeah if you

can make people laugh you can make them

see the truth like even even women in

Patrice's crowd they laughing kind of

shrug their shoulders like yeah he's

kind of right hmm do you know an Asian

Asian comedian there's gonna say there's

a cure the dude's name but it's this

Asian comedian called Takara or

something like that he's really good in

a red pill perspective I can't I'm

posted on my my Twitter I can't remember

his name for the life of me I know who

he is do ya goin color sometimes I will

share rational news writing essays with

my gut friends and I get a lot of

pushback to the point where you know

even fractured a couple of friendship

good I got you what I'm gonna do is no

no no that's okay I'm not gonna cut you

off I'm actually going to I'm actually

gonna just put you back in the queue so

that you can continue to listen thank

you yeah no problem

all right let's go to Erie code six one

nine you're on live but Donovan and roll

oh go ahead

hey how's it going good so I got all

your three books listen to you Donovan

on a consistent basis I'm going to join

your patreon pretty soon I've got a

question for ya both of you guys here

here's my scenario single mother but she

her kid doesn't live with her it's the

21st she's 23 year old so kids out of

the house she's 45 I'm 40 I understand

the whole thing about you know why she's

going out with a younger guy I have no

kids just a relationship she's got a

hysterectomy so she can't get pregnant

because I don't want to have a kid and

the thing is that the way the way the

for me it's a common

a great time is there and I know you

guys always say stay away for single

mothers is there something there that

I'm not seeing just on what I'm telling

you I don't know no no no no check this

out I know in Rollo you can chime in on

this too

but it's not that we say now I would

I've never endorsed saying stay away

from single mothers no no no no single

mothers have great utility they are easy

targets they are good for sex because

they are good at fucking dude single

mothers will keep your balls drained

because they're good at fucking they

made a bunch of babies they're good at

fucking they're gonna get fuck don't get

into a relationship with her don't catch

feelings for her that's a bad bet listen

if you have a harem of 17 single moms by

all means do you single moms are only

good for fucking that's it the only

exception is if maybe there's a split

custody agreement like one week on and

one week off even then they're gonna

they're gonna be some tendencies that

you're gonna have to break through what

do you think all right first off the

question you need to be asking yourself

is why are you with a woman who's 45

years old and you're 40 how are you are

you divorced or are you have always just

been single I'm just single and the

reason why I'm with a 45 year old is

because I'm just kind of looking not to

take anything too serious

and it was just more of like she's she's

working under my frame and that meant

that she kind of works with my schedule

with my work so of course she does she's

45 years old you wanna you want to talk

about a power dynamic that shift you

know the further a woman gets away from

like say 35 years old going up the the

lower the value ends up being and I'm

talking about sexual market value I'm

not talking about your personal worth

ladies but I think that the first thing

you need to do is decide why it is that

you're putting this one up to the top of

your list are you seeing other women at

the same time or is this the only one

you're seeing this one right now just

because I don't want to I don't want to

have I got too much going on oh no no no

all our color and listen that's a bad

excuse you want to know why no you're

making excuses listen don't take this

personally but listen listen no you're

serious enough about this woman that you

have called up Donovan sharp and Rollo

Tomassi about advice about her right you

already know what to do I think maybe

what you're looking for and really can

correct me if I'm wrong here's maybe

you're looking for permission to only

fuck her

which means you're kind of sort of

dating her exclusively how many nights a

week do you guys spend together okay all

right all right

assuming you're telling the truth you're

probably doing it right but again like

listen somebody just said in the chat

plate her don't date her don't make

anything official and you and again

here's what you need to do I don't give

a shit if you're working 16 hours a week

you got to start fucking somebody else

because

irregardless of what red pill knowledge

you have or the sexual market

discrepancy there is the beat between

you two the longer you keep fucking one

person the more the more likely it is

that you're gonna catch feelings for her

dude listen I'm the great donovan sharp

even when I had my Vegas high rise at

the Soho Rolla you know exactly where

the fuck that is right I'm up to my

eyeballs and stripper and cuss and

strippers and cocaine I drive three cars

I've got an Audi fully paid for life is

great all of a sudden I meet an eight

and I start fucking her everybody else

goes off to the side I'm a red pill

Donovan I'm right for Attorney Kings I'm

doing a podcast guess what I caught

feelings right why because she's the

only one I'm fucking dude you got to

start fucking somebody else because if

you don't you're gonna fuck around and

catch feelings for a 45 year old woman

you have no business catching feelings

for and when you do it's a wrap let me

ask you this did you have a did you have

a girlfriend before her I did okay would

you call okay would you call yourself a

serial monogamist

I like to know from North welcome do you

date women exfoliant yes he said yes he

admitted it that's and the reason that I

asked that is because that

is usually what you're doing right now

is a sign of a serial monogamist you you

exclude even just the idea of spinning

multiple plates simply because it

doesn't for some guys I guess it just

doesn't really feel right there's

there's a theory called sexual pluralism

or strategic pluralism for guys and it's

the guys who have kind of a lower sexual

market value it is in their best

interests to put all of their eggs in

one basket and to focus on that one

woman and then there is the other 20% of

men who you know have the leisure I

guess because of their looks or whatever

their status happens to be that they can

date non-exclusively and so it behooves

them or their reproductive strategy to

spread the seed right because that is

the male imperative which is unlimited

access to unlimited sexuality well I

just mean all guys do that but I think

that what you probably fit into is this

other category of guys who feels like

they need to put all of their eggs in

one basket and put all of their energies

into it's what I call a sniper mentality

you have to just sort of wait out for

your one chance with your with that one

girl and then you go from it's almost

like monkey branching for for guys it's

like well I can't go out with anybody

until I'm done with this chick right you

know and you have to make up these kind

of moralistic rationalizations as to why

you don't want to date not exclusive

everyone and in fact it would behoove

you did probably do that I see a lot of

guys who could who could do that who

actually they learn game or they've got

read their rip Hill where and they still

they still stick to this idea of well

and one man one girl blah blah blah

because probably because they've been

brought up that way or maybe they had

some sort of religious reasons for that

or simply they have only ever been

productive with women in a monogamous

situation I would suggest spending more

plates I think what you ought to do and

they you want some advice or some advice

for you I'm just gonna tell you to just

dump this chick but I think you owe it

to yourself to date other chicks you

need to go out there and you need to to

put yourself in the market date women

who are younger than 45 years old date a

woman who is 35

years old okay you got one that's five

years older than you go fine just simply

five years younger than you try that out

see what the differences are between a

woman is 35 no more is 45 see the

difference between a woman who has had a

hysterectomy or whatever she's had and a

woman who hasn't look at sync and you

right now a 45 year old woman has every

reason or every incentive in the world

to to you know fuck you seven ways from

Tuesday because she wants to keep you in

the loop

because she knows in five more years

she's going to be 50 years old listen

think about the fact I would say at 45

she's almost Perry minim listen check

this out now we know you know what's up

in five years this woman is going to be

50 you're gonna be 45 gonna be right

smack dab in the middle he'll be 45 so

exactly so at when I mean do you do you

want this to be some long-term thing or

do you want it to be okay well then if

that's the case then you owe it to

yourself to do exactly what I said which

is date women that are younger than you

and don't date single mothers if you can

avoid it at all I know that it's hard to

do when you're 40 some-odd years old

because every girl that you meet at that

point has probably been through one

marriage and probably has like kids

is either a single mother or it's a

divorcee or something I get that I

understand that it's tough to do that

and that's why I don't like I don't

break guy's balls for for going and

dating women who are like you know 36

years old I mean go younger at the very

least go younger but I I was going out

with multiple girls before her I was

going out with a 28 year old I was when

I was a 35 year old the thing is that a

lot of these other ones they're kind of

fucked up in the head let me let me let

me let me stop you right there listen I

understand I understand that it is a

better life to be fucking one woman than

to be fucking three I listen do trust me

this is why I'm in the business is why

I'm in the situation I'm in now write

out drew the biggest nightlife but again

you're making excuses to be exclusive

with a 45 year old woman

I dated 28 year-old and 35 year old

women and they had a slew of issues you

don't think this 45 year old woman has

issues too and guess what she's even

better she's even better at hiding those

issues you listen man listen keep

fucking her but you gotta start fucking

other chicks I'm telling you right now

if you don't you're gonna fuck around

and catch feelings and if you do I'm

telling you right now it is a wrap

halation yeah all right we got other

callers here code six for seven you are

on live with Donovan and Rollo hopefully

the woman you are fucking is younger

than 45 yes yeah my name is John so my

question is regarding your previously

mentioned you know some of these women

on Twitter trad cons we we should be

careful or skeptical of their strategy

right they talk about the traditional

roles and gender roles and although we

have to be skeptical of that my question

is in regards to some Muslim women so

there are a lot of listening woman we

talk about you know all of those gender

roles which are traditionally associated

with them for example did they say that

they will stay at home after marriage

they're gonna have kids you know those

sort of thing how skeptical should beƶ

these women and we know for example you

know if you know that these women they

were they grew up in a society or in a

culture in a household where her father

implemented those traditional rules

should we still descriptive all of these

women or or can we believe them so I

know that we should be looking at how

they act rather than what they say but

at what point do we have to kind of take

that leap of faith that this woman seems

the traditional compared to other woman

let me ask you this yeah let me ask you

this

so is does this Muslim girl I guess

Muslim owner you're talking about

are they on social media she's okay is

she on Twitter okay but she's on

Facebook okay does she talk about the

fact that she is traditional on Facebook

yeah yeah stop right there stop right

there stop right there stop right there

stop right there be skeptical of course

are gonna be skeptical listen if she's a

Muslim woman and she really is

traditional why does she have to tell

everyone that she is traditional number

one number two is this Muslim girl was

she raised in America or was she raised

in another country so she when she was

like 14 or 15 years old but before that

she should have chose she's an Arab

she's a middle-eastern

woman so so how old is she she's

spending she's 26

no yeah dude be skeptical man you coming

up on a she's coming up on the epiphany

phase I don't believe it is this Muslim

girl a virgin I think so I think you

know it's hard to say I listen listen

listen hold on hold on let me listen I'm

gonna give you the answer to your

question right girl say all the time if

a guy gets on his meat gets on one meat

what you should never do and propose us

to you will you marry me

girls say to other girls if you don't

know you know right like if you're not

sure that you want to marry the guy you

know you don't want to marry the guy if

you don't know whether or not this

Muslim girl is a virgin after moving

here at 14 years old now she's 26 and

she's not married yet if you don't know

she's a virgin you know

we're made like again listen she might

be I don't know in terms of quality

you'll have to figure it out but you're

gonna have to understand this girl is

not a virgin number one number two she's

been infected by feminism right so maybe

she's a little bit further ahead but the

fact that she's 26 and has all of these

qualities and she's a Muslim woman a

traditional dude if that were the case

bitch you'd be coming up on your vibe

you'd be coming up on your five six year

seven year wedding anniversary mmm what

do you think role oh yeah well I'll try

to make this as brief as possible well

as you probably already are aware I'm

writing a book on the red pill and

religion right now and this is one thing

that comes up quite a bit in the in the

discussions I have with with Muslim men

what about what about Muslim women what

about

it doesn't even have to be Muslim it

could be like traditional conservative

Christian women it can be you know

anyone who's kind of like Orthodox in

some way well shouldn't we believe them

shouldn't we be you know shouldn't we be

looking out for them isn't it a good

thing for women to have this this you

know idea that they want to follow along

with traditional conservative or

conventional gender roles and I'm not

saying that that's not God fact I

there's a lot of we you know about

traditional conservatives and I think is

a good idea and I understand why women

want that but the thing is is why does

that woman want that why is she pushing

that as an agenda right now whereas

maybe before she wasn't right so is it

an idea that women remain virgins is it

a good idea that women want to save

themselves from marriage is it a good

idea for you know for women to be more

to want to stay at home and to you know

take care of the kids yes that is great

stuff okay but who's saying this is it a

22 year old girl who you know is you

know going to college or something right

now or is it a woman who is 28 years old

and meat knows she needs to get off the

carousel and she knows that this is the

kind of life she kind of would like to

have if she could find the right

quote-unquote red pill guy right you

want to talk about why try read the red

pill and red pill men is so attractive

to trad con women it's because up to a

point men have this awareness that they

want to you know they want to sort of

live in this ideal world where where men

are men and women are women right they

they they like that idea they like men

Manning up and taking on

responsibilities they just don't like

the idea of men having authority over

them but what he's talking about right

here is there used to be checks and

balances for for hypergamy okay because

what does it boil down to what does what

why would a woman in why is it a good

idea for a woman to remain a virgin well

you know the fewer partners a woman has

the more she's able to have you know

solid healthy attachments in a

relationship we see that statistically

right now so Wow lo and behold the the

you know the scholars of the Ancients

just you know who said hey maybe it's a

better good

that we don't all have sex with each

other before marriage yeah there's

reasons for that how realistic that is

in this day and age I don't know but we

used to have checks and balances society

used to be a check of balance you know

when a woman had a child out of wedlock

that used to be scandalous you know in

the back in the hall yeah well if a

woman had a kid you know God forbid

she's like a teenage mom like she's like

16 years old here you send the woman

away or the girl away to have the kid

and put it up for adoption and then you

know cuz it's bringing shame on the

family and then you would have religion

and you couldn't have sex with your wife

until you or you were married and all of

this other stuff that were checks and

balances against both the male sexual

strategy and the female sexual strategy

and what we've done now is we've

unfettered hypergamy from all of that

so now unfortunately I have to doubt

those things I have to doubt when a

woman says I would traditional

conservative and I believe in

traditional values and I you know I'm a

trad con women you know Mogga whatever I

have to look at that and I have to take

that with a grain of salt because I look

at that now and I say where is this

woman in her maturity cycle how many

kids has she already had how old how old

is she is she in her epiphany phase and

I'm looking at all of these factors and

side-wise a woman why is that a priority

for her at 28 when it wasn't a priority

for her when she was 22 well because she

was in her sexual market value peak and

she could enjoy that now she sees that

she's has to cash out of the sexual

marketplace with the guy and the guy

that she wants to get with is the dude

who respects traditional conservative

you know conventional gender roles so is

she doing that as sort of to be

expedient you know that that's what she

wants and now she's had her cake and she

wants to eat it too in the long term and

have a guy who's gonna you know who's

gonna man up and take care of

responsibilities and do all this shit

that she probably didn't have as much

respect for when she was 22 and having

sex with guys in the foam cannon party

in Cancun on spring break right so I

have to be you have to be careful about

that so I think particularly in Muslim

societies right now I'm glad you brought

up the fact that you know is she living

in a Western culture because a lot of

guys particularly Muslim guys say not

the women in my culture women they have

respect for me

we have a different way than you guys

you losers in Western society and while

that might be true to a point then I see

like a country like Saudi Arabia saying

oh it's okay if women-owned businesses

oh now it's okay that women go drive

around now it's okay that women do this

or now it's okay that went you know

where you have with the women in in Iraq

who are taking a hijab off and then you

know flossing and dancing around doing

all this Western stuff that they you

know suddenly all of those repressed

oppressed Muslim women in those

countries don't seem quite so oppressed

anymore they don't seem quite so you

know held back as we've been led to

believe so I think that is it a good

thing for for women to be traditionally

conservative yes but you got to look at

the reasons why they suddenly want to be

true um yeah this actually reminds me of

a story actually that I saw the other

day i cieariy code 347 on the line and

if you guys look this up it's actually

look up the Holly Fisher story it's

probably not a story that's been talked

about there's actually on the Daily Mail

a while ago

anyway it was a she was a traditional

trad con right love God guns rock and

roll and I'm a you know I'm a

conservative and you know my husband's a

military veteran and bla bla bla bla bla

and I make liberal heads explode bla bla

bla bla bla guess what she listened she

was happily married and this night the

other that's what she ended up dude she

ended up fucking somebody else she ended

up having an affair right and if you go

to the article there's all sorts of

hamstrung I've been married since I was

20 and the husband was away and I lost

my faith in God

bla bla bla bla bla know what ended up

happening is that she met an alpha dude

that she wanted she met an alpha dude

that she wanted to fuck she made an

outlander that she want that she needed

a fuck this is how this is doesn't

matter how trad con you are hypergamy

and female nature Trump's all I'll

actually put the I'll actually put the

link in the chat right now it's funny um

I was actually thinking about I was

actually thinking about that the other

day it only gets too long so you guys

are just gonna have to look it up Bailey

male Holly Fisher let's go back to the

phone lines last phone call of the

evening airy code three four seven

you're on live with Donovan and roll oh

go ahead

are you doing guys good I've been

following you guys on Twitter for a long

time already I identified with the red

pill before I even know what it was when

I started reading all these books and

all these tweets so my question for you

guys will be kind of kind of a bit of a

topic so I have this friend of mine

which we're not I would say like a

co-worker it's not really a friend of

mine and we'd gone out a few times

and I feel like he's women be all over

me man and and I feel bad for the dude

because he's willing to her how can I

deal with this in the best way how can I

let him know without heard of his

feelings I know about this but I had

this problem before in the way I handled

it it wasn't the right way so I want to

see you guys got any tips handle it

better so let me get this straight

there's somebody that's going to talk to

me about the girl what's going on with

her all right okay and we went we went

out a couple of times and I feel like

she's a little bit too fresh you know

like this basically being times when you

know and you know vibing on me one with

that and this is your way hold on hold

on all the way mate so your girl so your

homeboys girl is rubbing up on you okay

all right so this is a co-worker so so

does the girl work with you guys or does

she is she outside of work no no the one

that works for me the guy yeah dude you

get listen man here's the thing dude

here's what I would do if I were you we

always say don't fuck your coworkers

right well guess what this extends

outside award right right but don't fuck

your co-workers wives or girlfriends

dude like listen man listen and I know

she's rubbing up on you and it's very

very difficult to turn down it's very

very difficult to turn down when a

woman's just thrown pussy at you but

let's just say you fucked this girl

right does she know that you does she

know that you work with her boyfriend

uh yeah yeah dude if she fucks you she's

got you by the balls right so let's say

you're fucking her for two or three

weeks and all of a sudden you start to

try to ghost on her what's she gonna do

she's gonna say you know what if you

don't think fucking with if you don't if

you don't keep fucking me I'm gonna tell

him and then there's gonna be problems

at work

now if if this girl is worth losing your

job over fine you know listen pull them

panties down and let the good times roll

but my guess is that one piece of pussy

is not worth losing your job how how

does shoot how does she relate to the

boyfriend when you guys are when you're

around what is her attitude towards him

when you are going out together

well pretty cool pretty like they get

along great but whenever he gets a

chance to talk to me alone they she

start complaining about him and you know

like I'm tryna like I've done that

before I I didn't I think the mistake oh

fucking the bird when she was throwing

on me and it was a friend of mine action

and I listened because I lost the

friendship and you know I mean became a

headache trying to go down that route

again oh yeah I I understand that I just

want to get a little bit better

understanding of the relationship

between like you and the guy that what

does she complain about when she

complains about and what is she saying

from him being lazy from him not being

said to like him not performing the way

he's supposed to performing bed she

that's when I know like okay so she's

talking about sexual stuff with you

about the Melissa I'm just making sure I

needed to make sure I'm glad you asked

him that because I was making sure

because here's the thing man

a lot of guys get this mixed up and I'll

get back to this guy in just a second

when a girl complaints you oh god my guy

is too fat yeah you know he's not

fucking me the way I want him to okay

you probably have a chance to fuck her

right but if she talks about oh my god

he's such an asshole he talks about is

you know his ex-girlfriend's are hitting

on him all the time dude that is a

one-way ticket to the fucking friend

zone but it doesn't it doesn't sound it

doesn't sound like that's what's going

on it really does sound like you could

fuck this girl if you wanted to that

sounds to me like she

is using him as sort of the beta and

using you as the alpha like she sees you

as a sexual lot she sees you as a sexual

opportunity and especially if she's you

know broadcasting her sexual

availability to be by way of complaining

about the other guy I mean I think you

probably already know that it's there I

mean the the offers on the table pretty

much if you want it but the reason I

asked all this is because I kind of want

to use you as a as an educational you

know example here for everybody else is

like there's I mean does the gut does

the guy think does the other guy does a

boyfriend to think that like she's all

about him does he get any is he does he

get any clue like what's going on with

her at the beginning he he did but then

little by little when she started doing

all these things you know I've been

telling him like a be careful don't give

you a hundred percent you know I just

explore your options or you know maybe

he's falling for her because she's

beautiful I'm not gonna lie she's yummy

looking alright alright well I the only

reason I'm asking that is because I

think that a lot of guys get into a

situation where particularly with beta

guys who are really kind of option 'less

and get into this scarcity mentality you

know and that happens a lot especially

if the girl is really hot because guys

think oh I'll never get a girl as hot as

this chick again and then that's where

it sort of slides back into her frame

because he becomes more necessitous than

she does and so for her to be hitting on

you like that especially I'm fairly

certain that he's probably picking up on

this but he don't want to believe it you

know what he wants to convince himself

that that everything's cool but I don't

know maybe he's maybe he does maybe he

doesn't but I think it's interesting you

see that here's the strategy though you

have a woman who's already you know

quote-unquote committed to one guy who

is not you know not everything that she

wants and yet she's still clean of this

dude at the same time she's flirting

with you so I mean that what does that

tell you about women's sexual strategy

yeah

exactly and to be honest they skipping

it all the way or I would I would okay

here's here's here's the advice here's

the advice I would say like excuse

yourself from this whole situation and

just keep spinning plates only I mean if

she here's what I think's gonna happen

though anyways she'll probably end up

breaking up with the boyfriend and then

she'll come around and try to try to hit

on you or try to come back and you know

cuz she's probably gonna see you as the

sure thing sexually so it wouldn't

surprise me if she broke up and if

that's the case let her let her make

that choice because first of all it puts

you into the solid frame if she leaves

him and comes into your frame and then

you have really super solid frame with

her but make her just one more of your

plates just make her like don't treat

her anything any more special just say

hey look I'm not exclusive if you want

to get with me fine that's great but

make sure that it's after she's already

kind of broken up with this guy and then

if you want turn her a no plate good

shit man thanks for the call area code

347 yo the fact that he listen I know

it's hard for this guy because he said

she was yummy I've never heard net words

that yo she's younger looking I'm like

wow there's gotta you gotta ask the

right questions I mean when I see stuff

like I've been working okay when I

people know my had my day job is my day

job is I've been working in alcohol for

probably 12 15 years now and I see I'm

out in the field and people want to say

well how does Rolla know all this stuff

about you know he's not out there he's

been married for 22 years you don't know

what I do for a living I'm out there

like like Jane Goodall and gorillas in

the mist man I'm watching the behavior

happen right Donnie I'm Dian Fossey of

the red pill right I'm out there

watching what whites from what these

guys are doing I'm seeing people from as

young as say 21 all the way up to their

60s and 70s and I see how a guy can tell

you when a guy has game and when a guy

doesn't have game I can tell you one of

chick is into a guy and is not I would

probably be the single best wingman you

would ever have if you were out there

because I could I could pretty much

accurately read what what men and women

are doing at any particular time

particular

with the the whatever environment

they're in people gave me so much shit

about the I have an essay called body

language right and it's what we're I'm

sort of analyzing pretty much the same

thing like Dave Navarro not even our Joe

Navarro does and he has this he has got

a great book called

the dictionary of body language and I

would suggest anybody who's in the game

or you want to get into like the real

PUA today pick up that pick up that that

book is called the the dictionary of

body language but anyways when I'm

seeing this stuff it comes from like

years of experience so when I hear

something like this I think ok what's

the guy about what's this other guy

about how hot is a chick how old are

they how long they've been dating do you

know what are the vibe that you get from

this guy and you just have to ask the

right questions because the the behavior

usually is pretty formulaic yeah I'll

tell you what it sounds this is it's

funny because we talk all the time about

girls who bram swing and we always just

say yeah girls gonna branch swing she's

gonna make sure that she has a branch in

her hand securely before letting go of

the other that's what this was dude this

dude was the other branch he's saying

himself listen I work with this guy his

girlfriend complaints to me she's

throwing the pussy at me what should I

do

dude she wants out but she's not gonna

get out until she no just like you said

sexual certainty is sexual you know

sexual wants of sure things and guys hey

guys do this too okay God and like the

guy we were talking about who was dating

the 45 year old man he wants the sure

thing that's why you stick with that

shit it's like you most men when it

comes to the when it comes to me I can

most most men being in the eighty

percent of you know 80th percentile they

don't want to waste their time with

stuff that's not going to work so when

you see a guy who's like oh yeah I'm all

about fat chicks you know I love that I

love a fat chick no you don't you don't

because you know that a fat chick is an

easier lay than a chick who is hotter

because there's more involved in you

going and getting that guys will be like

I like older women you know I have a

thing for older women no you don't you

have a thing for younger women you the

reason you have a quote unquote

preference for a 45 year old woman

is because it's easier okay because the

path the the pathway from point A to

point B is a whole lot easier than

having to do something else right and so

I would I would just leave it with the

guys here is I think that if you have a

preference or if you have if you think

you find yourself falling into like

these repetitive dating habits such as

serial monogamy why do you do that well

you do that because it's a sure thing

you think that it's a sure thing

and so why do you go for single mommies

they're a sure thing they want to get

laid

why do you go for forty five-year-old

women they're sure thing you keep coming

back to the same watering hole because

there's water in a watering hole so two

last topics here the the phone lines are

closed

I can't believe been on the air for

almost an hour to half dude it goes

quick going back to what we talked about

in the beginning is yes when men find

the red pill do 99.9 percent of the time

it's because of a woman sexual

frustration or heartbreak and when we

ingest red pill truth it's all about

okay never been good with women I want

to take advantage of women for a change

you learn about the red pill you start

fucking a bunch of women but the funny

thing happens on the way to this player

for life status you begin to figure out

that you know what I don't really need

to pursue women women are gonna pursue

women will pursue me and I'll pursue

them but they're not the end-all be-all

there's so many other constructive

things I can be doing with my life then

chasing pussy all day right listen it's

great but when you really do but when

when when the red pill really starts to

sink in you begin to figure out that

that having access to high-quality

beautiful women is merely a side effect

of living the red pill life there the

reason you found the red pill in the

first place but then they be but they're

the main reason you you live the red

pill life but then they become I don't

know secondary probably even probably

even further back one last thing I

wanted to say you said if you know the

process of changes the process and a lot

of guys like to brag well that's

hypergamy I know that's branch swinging

and all this other kind of stuff listen

man Devin knows all the red pills

listen this makes it very very I can't

be incongruent right

Xin I know what she knows that I know

that she knows she was at the 21

convention she knows all about this

stuff right we meant you she met all the

guys she dude she's read all of my post

she watches most of my shows she built

my website so when Devin gets out of

pocket she knows some cuz she knows

consciously she is shit testing me and

she knows consciously that I am passing

the shit tests right only because Devin

knows about the red pill this is one of

the reasons why I'm able to keep my red

pill edge because I know she knows what

listen she and my soul is there it's

it's all there she knows what I do when

why I do it she knows what she doesn't

why she does it

so give me your thoughts as we as we

close out the show why it's why it's

important out my situation with Devin is

very unique I'm not saying that you

should open your woman up to the red

pill and she'll fall in line know the

reason why

Devin falls in because I'm fucking

donovan sharp that's why right like she

listen she knows that she knows that you

know that she's peered behind the

curtain guess what that really is the

winner of fucking us like the man you

see on the screen that's the same

motherfucker behind the curtain she

knows and understands that but for the

what for the rest of you guys who aren't

doing podcast you're not you know you're

not writing you're not at the 21

committees you're not a red pill guy

you're a red pill consumer rather than a

purveyor why do you think it's important

for guys not to run their mouths about

the red pill to their women and their

friends well because first off it's too

much information because it it I'm sure

you've heard this before and this is a

pickup artist like Tennant I guess never

always try to be a challenge right

always try to be oh I hate to use this

analogy but be an onion you know you

have to peel away that you know like I'm

using a Shrek example here you have to

be an onion you have to be something

that you can sort of get put what I call

breadcrumbs okay you have to give just

enough of yourself for her to want to

follow along into the into the state

that you want her to be in you want to

be a challenge you want to be a mystery

you want to have some sort of some kind

something about you

that keeps that woman coming back to

learn that much more about you there's

nothing that is more satisfying to a

woman's you know mythical sense of

female intuition than to think that

she's figured you out by using that

intuition and if you can keep that

indignation going and you can keep that

dread going and you can keep that

competition anxiety going by by staying

as much of a mystery as you can or by

doing something out of pocket or doing

something that's that's not in your

behavior so one of the reasons that when

one of the reasons of why marriages

stagnate is because guys get predictable

yes and so you know tomorrow I might say

hey I'm gonna go learn in fact I was

just thinking about this I want to go

learn how to weld right I want to learn

how to be a welder they're not being

welder Willy but I want to do is

creatively right so just out of the blue

I'll say hey you know what I'm thinking

about thinking about taking some classes

in welding did this come from you know

you know I don't understand oh you know

where this is you know she knows I'm a

creative person but it's just something

I'm thinking out loud kind of thing or

maybe I'll go and do something sort of

out of character or I'll start a new

hobby or something like that or maybe

I'll start a new training program or new

diet or what you know whatever else but

there's there's simple things that guys

can do that sort of takes them out of

that predictability because once you get

into that predictability then women have

control over you they know what you're

gonna say before you're saying it one

classic mistake that blue pill guys make

when they're on a date assuming they can

get a date is when they get on to a date

they spill their guts out on the the

restaurant table they're like oh when I

was eight years old my mom did this and

then I was you know so I graduated from

high school and then I went to college

and then you blurt out as much of them

of themselves as they possibly can

because they've been taught this idea

that open communication and and you know

just being as expressman as emotional as

possible and and being as honest person

and they think that that's gonna be

appreciated by women and it's not

appreciated by women women want to

discover you they want to know they want

the book of you page by page not like

here it is you know they don't want the

cliffnotes to your life they want to be

able to figure you out as you go along

so you've got to give them breadcrumbs

and you've got to be confident enough to

understand that ifs if a woman is even

in your realm of possibility of ever

being something exclusive that you have

to have that frame and that's that's

another thing that's how you build frame

that's how you build that world that she

wants to be a part of that she wants to

to insert herself into you know it's the

same thing we were just talking about

you know male space you have every guy

has his own kind of personal male space

is that male space something that a

woman wants to be a part of and get into

is if you can say yes and you got you

know you've got the history to prove it

great good for you but most guys don't

have that and the reason they don't is

because they believe in this idea that

this and they got to be totally honest

and I'll leave you with this is women

always say that they want honesty but

they never want full disclosure okay

they always say they want honesty but

they never want full disclosure and the

reason I say that is because they still

want you to be you know upfront with

them but they don't want you to feed it

to them all at once they don't want you

to throw the whole book at them all at

once they don't want to they don't want

to know the your life story right you

know on the first date they need to be

able to figure you out and there's

nothing that is more entertaining and

there's nothing that's more intriguing I

think that's the word I'm you looking

for it there's nothing more intriguing

about a guy that a woman has to sort of

pick apart and she never she she's you

got to be that guy that she goes to her

girlfriends and says she says I can't

figure this guy out but I got to figure

him out I can't figure him out but I got

to figure him out right and so you keep

that girl sort of in the enraptured with

with your story that's why one of the

things that pickup artists always say is

don't give her everything in fact make

her talk about herself more than you

talk about yourself because the less you

give to her the more she gets to fill in

the blanks with her imagination where

there's nothing more useful in a pickup

art or getting your game tool chest than

a woman's imagination so she needs to be

able to imagine things of you and that's

what keeps her engaged that's what keeps

her enthralled in the story of you yes

discovery Trump's disclosure you said it

as women want to discover you they don't

want you to tell them

to be wooed by you they don't want to

know that you got your technique I I

also get this with this question a lot

too because I've been married for 22

years and people say well doesn't mrs.

Tomasi already know all of your tricks

doesn't she know all this stuff you know

remember my book came out

yes but here's the thing heaven knows

that this is who I am this is why this

is why well and then I also play with I

know my wife will enough that I can play

with her and I can play with her and I

and here's this is a law of power never

teach your students all of your tricks

never teach anyone so much that you can

be replaced that's Robert Greene right

there that is from the 48 laws of power

never teach your students so much that

you can be replaced

never give up those tricks so are there

things in my book that I'm that I do I

am I giving it all away no I'm not

giving it all the way you know I I have

some you know I've got three I got three

great books that people can sort of dig

into and and you know grab the knowledge

and apply it to their to their lives but

is there more yes there is there

certainly is like I'm still figuring out

some of it too right and that's the

glass of beauty of the ripples I'm still

you know people are gonna say well

aren't you running out of things to

write about no I'm not running and I'm

not because I'm constantly being

challenged by this stuff and I'm

constantly reconsidering things I

reconsider stuff that I wrote back in

2002 am I went way back now listen Rollo

it's been a pleasure man this is every

show we do better man it really does we

answered some questions we kept it 100

with all the callers you guys can follow

Rollo on twitter at rational mail

I think you're on Facebook too now right

I'm not on Facebook just yet but I will

be I am I have a the rational male is on

Facebook and the one that's on there is

run by Sam Botta he's the guy who reads

my book so he takes care of my facebook

my the rational male side of things I

don't have a persona for Rollo Tomassi

on facebook's I've never really seen the

importance of it but I think I'm

probably going to do it soon I'm on

Instagram you can oh yeah I always

forget that I I don't use it that much I

use it okay I guess I if you like dog

pictures

like if you like if you're if you're a

fan of greyhounds and snowmobiling

follow me on instagram on instagram at

rational male obviously go to the

rational male calm of course he is the

author of the revolutionary book series

the rational male obviously you guys

know where to find me

great show you're in on the red man

group for Saturday correct yes yeah what

are we talking about I listen I think

we're still up in the air about that but

I think we've got it nailed down to like

two or three topics we'll discuss it in

you'd thank you for listening to TSR

live I will be back on the air tomorrow

at the regular time 5 p.m. Eastern 2

p.m. Pacific I will have Steve the Dean

Williams on to discuss well sex dolls

eventually remember that's gonna be a

good one thank you all for listening and

we'll see you tomorrow

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