Tinder openers that get you laid with Black Label Logic (Episode 372)




a woman never belongs to you it's just

your turn

of course her parents don't have a

problem with me being black she's past

the wall get your fat ass off the couch

start lifting weights and learn game

you're welcome so you got drunk at a

frat parties and fucked the football

team they're not a rape victim

sweetheart you're a slut

what's up guys it's a man Donovan sharp

and welcome to the 370 second edition of

TSR live your daily dose of red-billed

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November 30th 2018

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let's go ahead and get right to it my

guest tonight is black label logic how

many I can't I really can't count how

many times you've been on the show Carl

you you've actually been on the show and

I turned off my camera because I need to

wipe off my lens here but I think you've

been on my show I don't know maybe four

or five times I think I think it's the

third one okay yeah normally we do

tonight's episode we're gonna do tinder

openers give me just a second I need to

wipe off my my my camera lens because

it's not really as sharp as it needs to

be so give me one thing

all right let's see if that works I

think I fucked up and oh no hang on I

gotta move it back down at least you're

not looking orange anymore oh Christ

yeah I mean I had to upgrade the all

right let's see how that okay all right

that looks much better

now look oh there we go very very very

very very very good very good

yeah I don't really like the angle and

I'm up I'm a fucking stickler for this

shit but actually you know what

there we go excellent all right

you know what good enough I don't like

that I'm I don't like that I'm tilted I

don't like that I'm tilted but again I'm

anal when it comes to this kind of stuff

this is why my show is as successful as

it is so today Carl we are talking about

tender openers and how important it is

to see because here's the thing a lot of

guys get on tinder and they match up

with a bunch of girls the problem is is

they can't they they don't get a chance

to close the deal because of course they

can't open well they say hey how are you

let's get a drink and then the girl

completely goes cold what are your

experiences with tinder openers well I I

test everything I do and I keep track of

what works and what doesn't

now from experience I'm not going to

give out any of my own best-performing

Oprah nurse because I saw what happened

when style did not and that turned all

his openers completely ineffective but I

kind of categorized them into different

types of openers and on tinder it's not

like opening a girl in real life because

if you run Digg and you can walk off to

a girl and be like hey I'm whatever my

name is at that day and you get a

conversation started because there are

not another hundred dudes running up to

her saying hi your problem on tinder is

that any hot girl is going to have at

least you know 30 40 guys sending her

openers so what you have to do is make

sure that she notices and

responds to yours and what I've done

with that is you have to use an opener

that's more than just hey just by the

way from OkCupid Statistics hey is

better than hi and hello is worse than

hi okay why is that I'm interested now

already I'm interested why is that

what's the difference

Oh nobody knows you just they did

response rates on OkCupid and saw you

know what got the most responses and

turns out that was say hey well do you

have it it's let me ask you this do you

have experience with OkCupid and tinder

or just tender no I've done tinder I've

done happen I've done bumble I haven't

really fucked around with OkCupid or

match.com or that style of online dating

yeah I'm not looking for it lucky what

strikes miss tinder happen and Bumble

are more suitable towards what I'm

looking for which is to get a girl into

that as soon as possible I'm not really

in the relationship market so for me it

makes no sense whatsoever to focus on

the type of sites that are coming geared

towards women who have a cat fetish and

a wine problem in a wine problem all

right so most guys in pardon me for the

for the theatrics with the camera I

don't I mean yeah I'm just I'm so anal

when it comes to the way everything

looks and feels so what are what are

some of your so I think the thing that

you said right out of the gate was that

approaching a woman out on the street is

not like approaching a woman on OkCupid

or tinder so what so aside from you know

the the differences between high and hey

what are some of the things that you try

to do to to to get her attention like in

other words what do what are the things

that you do what are the things that you

don't do to get her to not just

completely ignore you and ghost on you

well what I did is I've kind of conflict

four categories of openers that ten that

at least they get a reaction once you

have a real

you have a response from her and cutting

you can start to get her to invest so

the first one is the WTF opener and

Anthony was the one who coined the one

of the better ones there with the I want

to come on your face and declare you my

girlfriend yes yes

so when you say WTF that means she she

responds with what the fuck no that's it

that's kind of her reaction when she

reads that opener because that's not

that's not going to be commonplace she's

going to have a lot of guys who are

trying to do the a couple of the other

openers here but that's specific one

very few guys are going to be that

brazen and that overt with their first

message so what you have to keep in mind

with an opener like that it it's really

really market dependent and I I made

some notes on that because you kinda

have to look at your profile the type of

type of girl you're matched with and

kind of you know the congruence between

those two because you've got if you come

off as kind of a beta box guy and you

drop that opener I'm sorry you're going

to get blocked or not responding to if

you come off as really strong alpha or

really high-value you might get a

response or I'm fucked a couple of girls

off that Beach mussels opener well the

thing is this dude is that if you if you

come at a girl in a nun or in an

unorthodox way the WTF open or hey I

want to come on your face and declare

you my girlfriend the girl is gonna

think what the fuck right subconsciously

she thinks okay like I could just block

this fucker I could report him this is a

very bold and breezin opener and again

girls aren't thinking about this

consciously they're thinking about this

subconsciously this intrigued them

because she thinks to herself surely

this isn't something that he says too

and surely this isn't something that

most guys would say when you are that

bold and you're that reason upfront with

your first interaction with a girl that

says to her that you've got you don't

really have anything to lose you've got

that abundance mentality does that sound

accurate to you

yes that and it's also very effective

for screening because you're screening

her because any girl with a sense of


go with the right sense of humorous code

to think that's funny of course right

and also if she responds to that she's

going to be attracted to you I've had

girls that respond to it and not been

down to talk right away but they've kind

of been warmed up so you kind of just

have to do a little bit of work you know

and one of the girls responded with

something like and I dropped the opener

she dropped a positive response I'd draw

up a let's meet up and have a drink and

she was like give me a second I want to

know a little bit about the man I'm

promising my life to that I'm turning to

a bit of banter back and forth and and

that worked out fine but great it's then

we'll go into that a little bit later

and the second opener is the definitely

the one I found that worked the most

consistently well and it's the wall

that's fucked up opener okay and a

simple version of this is that I've used

some time it's like oh shit I just saw

my sister on girls gone wild I'm fucking

going too bad you've actually said that

before you've actually opened with that

before yeah my sisters there's no

problem for me of course of course so

what are some of the responses you get

from that that sounds what that sounds

way out there well you get a reaction

from it the one I found the most is a

very um you know you you know oh fuck I

just got my boss up on tinder I take

that as a hint that I've swiped enough

and then when they respond and

regardless whether you're starting just

respond back but like hey I think I'm

gonna Supra like her just to make coffee

on Monday really fucking awkward that

again that gets that entry going yeah

that's that's what I'm having most

consistent your your entire goal there

is just to make the girl to go oh shit

that's fucked up right right and you

know you could go something like you

know my mom asked me you know is it

common for girls to try and shave their

badge these days

see this is funny I don't have any

experience whatsoever with online dating

like I don't and so when I hear stuff

like this it's like it it this is all

because I've never like I would never go

up to a girl and say i want to cum on

your face and make you my girlfriend I

would never like I've never I've never

tried the mono maybe if I were drunk

enough maybe if we did our 31 our 31

days or 31 minutes to alpha right if I

were on if I run if I are on cocaine and

Tran and whiskey yeah I might I might do

it then but it's it there's there such a

difference there's a difference between

opening a girl in real life and opening

to throw on tinder that's unbelievable

so you want to get her to say holy shit

that's fucked up

yeah but you don't want to do it in a

way that D values you and you don't want

to do it in a way that degrades her you

want it to be at the expense of a third

party or like if I say something like

holy shit I just saw my sister's

gynecologist on tinder Wow girl go what

the hell right and she's gonna be

curious that speaker curiosity what good

whoa go back to what you said opening a

girl on the street or in a club is

different than on tinder yeah because

the girl the girl said you're opening on

an app like tinder or Bumble or happen

there already you let's say warmed up

you already move past that like are you

attractive stinks you're already at the

stage where they they think you're

attractive so we're going kind of just

jump in there and to go through that

again it's like the escalation because

if you go back to hey I want to get to

know you that you're de-escalating the

situation I got a question here from

Ryan Sullivan he wants to know it it

always intrigues me when dudes ask these

seemingly inconsequential question he

wants to know why you call yourself

black label logic why choose that name

Karl because when I named my blog I well

I still drink heavily and my blog is

really centered on logic so

I drink a lot of whiskey and usually

Johnny Walker black or blue label and I

write a lot about logic so that was just

I'm a natural naman I like that

black label logic listen we all we all

have our origin story that actually

makes sense so a good question there


I thought Ryan was trying to bust your

balls joby blogs actually says isn't

black label of Johnnie Walker whiskey so

he got that you guys can call in nine

one four two oh five five three five six

if you have if you guys have any

questions or comments on this stuff

Guillermo Garcia asks Karl do you

recommend paying for any of the apps are

any of them worth it cinder gold bubble

premium I mean well bubble premium I

haven't used anything used Bumble that

much to be honest because I it's

basically the same as tinder but the

girls have to open you and I found

that's where I got the idea that the

girls are already pre warmed because a

girl openly with something like totally

bland and I was like Jesus I was

expecting you to put in a little bit

more work at least give me a decent

pick-up line and she was like well you

know when you're swiped right on one of

these apps you basically pass the pickup

line stage huh well basically this is

funny that she says that literally what

she tells you what she told you Karl is

I'm a girl I don't have to like my

pickup line is just to show up right

it's so funny girl listen girls are not

supposed to be good at picking up men

that's one thing like a buddy of mine

was on bumble a while back and when he

told me that the girls have to pick you

I was like you know what I don't really

like the idea of girls you know yeah you

know I like the idea of mutual interest

instead of I'm gonna pick you and I'm

gonna pick you because bumble is one of

those apps that literally just tells

girls like wasn't whoever you pick is

gonna pick you it's almost it's almost

like they're saying you know listen they

don't have to pick you because we know

they're going to pick you and in some

case I mean listen I mean conceptually

they're right right if a decent-looking

girl picks you chances are you probably

would have swipe right on them on tinder

anyway but that's but the reason I don't

like bumble that much is because if you

look at like something like tinder if

you get a hundred matches you drop

let's say a hundred openers you're gonna

have responses anything from twenty to

fifty of those those are my rates okay

not sure how how those that branch out

and is probably going to differ from

city to city etc so but if you're on

bumble and you get a hundred matches a

hundred of those girls are not going to

open you win the best twenty of them are

going to open you

why don't they if a hundred if one

hundred girls like you on bumble then

why would only twenty of them match you

I mean are they throwing spaghetti too

like we are what no they have to open I

think that's the problem girls are not

used to opening man

no they're not wait but in the aggressor

situation that's going to be an issue

because a lot of them are going to and

plus a lot of girls are have

notifications turned off on these apps

so they're not getting messages on their

phone when they matched with someone so

I just had a girl get back to me now

when it was like eighteen days since I

sent you have sent for the opener and it

doesn't surprise me that girls have

their notifications turned off because

they're always getting picked they're

always getting chosen no one will be

here one of your listeners here had an

example of the next opener which is the

wordplay opener okay and he is that I

want to bend you over the tumble dryer

and make you my ironing board and then

the work player is basically that it's

it's a clever play on either her name or

something else I found one because I was

looking for examples to do these for the

show and there's a guy here who's he

opens with a Persian guy tried to fight

me once and the girl goes then he's dumb

and the guy goes I guess so but I didn't

what I had to do and she said well what

did he do and he goes I ran this is so

it's like doodoo why does this stuff

work because to meet because again I

think I keep confusing the real world

with with with the online dating world

and I think to myself if I were to ever

say that to a woman like Iran she'd be

like oh Jesus get the fuck out of here

why does this stuff work on dating apps

why doesn't this stuff work for the most

part in real life

I think it's because you're furthered in

the second you match with someone on a

dating app like tinder having a rumble

you're a bit further down in the funnel

so when you're opening the girl it's a

warm open some extent because she's when

she swipes on you she agrees that okay

this dude can open me so she's not gonna

have a big shield up for the most part

okay oh okay yeah that makes sense and

then you can you know then you can use

that sense of humor and it was like ruch

said I did bang and a bang and one of

the things he says in de bang is that

girls from your day game in them are a

lot like cats and girls when you're not

giving them or a lot like dogs if you go

too aggressively with the cats it's

going to run away and hide under the bed

or in a box or something right but if

you go aggressively with the dog and

start petting it and playing with it the

dog is going to love it so it's the same

thing with online game it's it's just

even more down that pipeline because

most of the times she's looked at your

pictures you think you look good right

look that whatever else info and if you

put a beast and bio in nurse she knows

kind of what kind of dude you are so

she's already going to be to some extent

let's say a maybe lean or aha queen so

when you open her very directly that

she's going to be pliable to do that

it's not sure if you ever ran night game

but those kind of girls you can just

kind of walk over to them and kiss them

and they're just ready to go yeah right

especially like when they're giving you

and it's interesting like I've done that

oh I've done that dozens of times half

the time you end up fucking them half

the time you don't because they're just

looking to have some fun or whatever

maybe you lose game maybe you don't but

it's weird like if you're at a nightclub

or at a bar and like you you lock eyes

with a girl like on more than one

occasion you know you kind of you know

you walk by her you kind of flirt with

her or you do this and that any other

you know you can walk up to her just lay

one on her it does happen that way

you got listen again you got you have to

put in the oh this is next level type

game but I agree with what you're saying

basically when you're dealing with

online dating it's not a cold lead when

you're approaching during the day that

is a super cold approach daygame is

notoriously difficult especially for a

black guy because they know when a black

guy approaches them during the daytime

we're looking a fuck right like we've

got that ascent looking to rob not gonna

rob you you know I'm saying I got a

criminal record but I'm not gonna rob

alright let's move to the third Oh

actually wait him if there was one more

thing that was on here rob l21 five says

bumble has better quality girls than

tinder a lot of guys say that what say

you it I think it depends a lot on City

and Ryan and I am NOT the Ryan in chat

here Ryan the shirt stone we were

discussing this at some point and I

think what we landed on is that Orlando

which is where Anthony is and where the

21 convention is that has a reputation

for being kind of a redneck City it's

more or less a metropolitan area full of

rednecks and quite slutty girls so more

aggressive game and the type Anthony

might work better there than if you try

to do it in Warsaw or something which is

a lot more conservative and I think it

depends because I'm in two places where

there were like two girls on bumble and

I take a major limitation with bumble as

opposed to tinder it's the fact that on

tinder you can set your location and you

can set how far away you want your

matches to be so you only see girls

let's say within 10 miles of you or

within five miles of you so you know

they're close you can get and go and

have a drink

decently on bumble you can get like if

if there are not a lot of bum bowlers in

your area you can get hits from you know

half the Southwest or you know all over

a country and that's gonna be a pain in

the ass and you have to you know do a

two-day layover to go fuck a girl who

has time for that

oh dude fuck that noise oh my god dude

pussy pussy ain't that serious you know

it's interesting um I I don't I drove

through Atlanta or not Atlanta I drove

through Orlando when I moved from North

Carolina to little city just outside of

Tampa City Florida

but I drove through Orlando when I went

to the 21 convention that was the first

time I'd ever been in Orlando likes

feed the night and I guess I maybe I

just Devin and I didn't really get out

that much but I had no idea that it was

really considered sort of a redneck sort

of a redneck

you know population that happened to be

in a metropolitan area I had no idea no

I never been to Orlando so Ryan said it

but and then just knew the fourth opener

real quick and we can move on it's the

innocent question quick escalation

opener and I did not think this would

work but I go to the reddit has a tinder

thread and I saw this here knows like

well they have a bunch of matches anyway

may as well burn a few of them on that

openers right and the person I call is

the innocent question quick escalation

opener and it's the tinder one is over

12 woman do you like bread question mark

nope no matter what the girl answers you

go ok ok good follow-up question do you

like being choked

oh yeah that's correct do you like that

is Braille my you know this is so funny

this is this stuff is so brilliant man

it makes you it makes me regret not ever

having been online dating because that

because again if just like you said

you've got a few you've got a few to

burn why the hell not how did it work

well I actually did go oh I slept with

one guy only you sit on like 20 girls I

think I slept with one of them offic and

I went on a date with one of them and

it's it's not something I'm gonna make a

part of my rep form because my wall

that's fucked up opener is so effective

I'm just one more using that 90% of the

time now right but it's and it's also it

goes into the my next point here because

one of the things I made a note of

profile and market congruence and I'm

bridging okay and because what you're

trying to do is your profile has to kind

of work with the kind of guy she thinks

you are when you match with her right

and that has to kind of be congruent

with your opener it's kind of like the

same thing if you're doing day game or

night game

and you look like a really huge

masculine tattooed alpha dude and you go

up there and you have a really wimpy

voice and you're a pussy when you're

hitting on her because she gets kind of

short circuit in her brain and she's

like okay he looks like that or the axe

like that I'm what the fuck's wrong with

this guy so if your profile doesn't give

that indication either what the picture

is with the profile text or both you're

gonna have a problem and I think that's

why the and that's fucked up opener

works for me because my profile text is

generally on the funnier side and has a

lot of dry humor in it it has some

heavily loaded with innuendo so that

tends to draw in kind of girls worse

than dirtier side of the spectrum as

opposed to the another bio I ran the

drooling more let's say slutty girls

okay and area code 774 I see you in the

queue were gonna get to you in just a

minute just hold tight the one now real

quick we're gonna get into the one that

you talked about with the slutty girls

you said there was you said you stick

with the that's fucked up open or ninety

percent of the time is that your go-to

yeah there's because it works also it

works really well with a bridge because

one of the things you notice with

openers and it's really apparent if guys

are doing a game or a night game is that

you have to be able to bridge from the

opener into a conversation of some right

right because if the girl fun thinks

your opener is fucking hilarious and

then she stops the conversation then

you're not doing the work where you

haven't figured out an opener that

allows you to build that bridge so it's

the same with the knife if you remember

the neil strauss who lies more men or

women yes yes that's not a yes or no

question because they're gonna have to

let's say if they just say man you're

gonna be hell why do you think it's Matt

right doesn't matter get them to start

investing in yeah it doesn't matter what

they say what's important is that you're

able to get them into the conversation

then two minutes into the conversation

they're gonna forget the original one

you can just

game is normal you have to kind of get

them investing in a conversation and

then you can go forward you have to know

where to go and Carl makes a very good

point it's a lot of guys can open up

girls just like that a lot of guys are

great in the first eight seconds but if

the girl takes the bait a lot of guys

are like okay she took the bait what do

I do now and guys end up missing out on

leis I I liken that to pickup artists

who are good at fucking a lot of girls

but they're not good at fucking them

more than once right listen being good

at one-night stands is not easy let's

let's not make any mistake about that

but the the difference between I guess

your fly-by-night pickup artist players

and the actual true Casanova's are the

ones that can keep fuckin the pretty

girls don't be the guy who's good at

one-night stands don't be the guy who's

good at just the one line openers on

tinder you have to be able to carry on

the conversation after that you have to

be able to you have to be able to parlay

that into being able to run game getting

her open open to conversation let's go

to this link it's about one more comment

on that before we go to the phone line

and why is it that's okay yeah go ahead

yeah because I like to think of this as

in terms of you have to be able to crawl

before you can walk and you have to be

able to walk before it can run right

because a lot of guys start off I'm

going to learn game-like I want to learn

games I can get that specific chick to

be my girlfriend that's not how it works

because first you have to learn how to

open girls then you have to learn how to

bridge then you have to learn how to

build tension then you have to learn how

to release tension then you have to get

them on dates then you have to be able

to escalate them from a date to a

location where you can get their clothes

off and then you have to have the

one-night stand and once you get the

one-eyes then then you can start moving

into you know how do i fuck her more

than once once you think it reliably get

one-night stands you can move into okay

how do I turn this girl into a plate

once you can hold a plate you can go

okay how do I turn this girl into my

main chick or my side chick it listen it

is a process and I mean I talk to guys

all the time I want to have six or seven

girls in my rotation okay relax that's

possible you got to get girl number one

first right

number zero you have to learn to be able

to divorce your feelings from pretty

girls and a lot of guys a lot of guys

mistakenly sort of skip that step they

end up getting up and next thing you

know they're you know back in their blue

pill bliss nine eleven for two oh five

five three five six is the number to

call if you want to get it on the show

area code seven seven four you're on

live with Donovan and black label logic

go ahead how you guys doing tonight

doing good you all right all right I

like to comment Karl you are fucking

hilarious brother

I can definitely resonate with your last

episode you had when you got you went on

live your repertoire but the the

statistics about everything with cinder

and how how girls drop off and they

ghost you and everything else like that

is totally true

now I'm newly single after being in a

relationship after seven years and

engaged with a child and obviously about

eight months ago I got back on my game

and at first I know there's a lot of

guys out there that that can definitely

be on the same page as me it's like you

realize you don't have no game or your

games you need to need definitely to

work on it right so obviously about

eight nine months ago I got back on

tinder or I got on tinder and Bumble and

just seeing how girls don't open you cuz

they getting hit by a hundred dicks

before they even get into work or

everything else it's it's fucking

hilarious you like pickup it does I want

to say it works but it doesn't work at

the same time every chick is different

some things that someone finds some some

females find hilarious others find

repulsive right like oh yeah I want to

come on your face yeah like you would be

blocked by seven six seven out of ten

and it also depends on your demographic

we occur from right here you

conservative area liberal area

I'm personally I'm a conservative and

liberal town territory so it's like

I can get girls to do whatever I want to

but when they find out like who I am

it's like oh my god you you you have

guns you you believe in uh you know a

taxation stuff I want nothing to do it

yes master

we're coming time I'm sorry yep it

smashed right oh yeah

well there you go you win right oh my

god doing that when I am just gonna put

a gun on my nightstand so when she wakes

up in the morning she sees the gun and

gets the fuck out you know what you know

what check this out Carl I'll get you

one better

I can promise you Anthony Johnson has

done that at least twice I know he's


no he's done it before three four hours

together and you get you get a little

hot in the car and outside of the

restaurant Bob whatever wherever you're

at and she goes down you you gotta put

your gun out of your pants in order to

uh take your pants off that's a good

reaction sometimes yeah I would say so

Roger Macallan in the chats as I agree

with with what the caller saying I was

on a date with a girl from tinder and

she told me unmet she told me that she

unmatched and reported guys that they

send a sexual opener listen man these

are just the girls and again when a girl

were put and thanks for the call area

code seven seven four the thing is

Carl is now this is where I think online

dating can be similar to the real world

and stay with me here that girl who says

well I report guys who have you know who

send me sexual openers I block them and

blah blah blah but if that guy look like

an underwear model if you look like a

Tom Brady or something she wouldn't

report that guy it's the same thing as

Kevin and say listen Kevin in sales has

fucked everybody in the office you think

any of those bitches are reporting him

to HR no for two reasons number one he's

fucking the HR lady number two Kevin and

sales is attractive right so you gotta

be you have to be a certain kind yet

that important kind of perceived value

and and again this comes with your bio


file if your profile is strong then you

can open certain girls with sexual

openers remember girls make rules for

Vedas they break rules for alpha so that

girl who says well I report guys who

have sexual printers yeah really would

you report a guy who looked like the guy

you want to fuck of course not what do

you think about that because I think

that's not a reference I was gonna

reference to Mossy's poor girl store

like have you ever slept with a guy on

the first date yeah of course but not if

he was boyfriend material he's the same

thing I mean you know that the girl that

tells you oh I'll report any guy who

sends me a sexual opener was probably

sleeping with a guy was sent to or her

sexual opener yesterday but I didn't

have some I do want to comment on

something and he is right that the the

beach muscles up return that is the

high-risk high-reward opener because you

know he's you know probably six out of

ten girls are going to see that and

they're going to either have a negative

response or no response but the one two

maybe three that respond to it are going

to be extremely positive so the effect

of that is it gets rid of time wasters

it's the same as what does them the one

guy oh yeah yeah helen run the curry

it's the same thing as mode one it's if

you go full direct game on a girl within

30 minutes of meeting her you know

you're going to have a lot of girls

flake but you're not gonna waste a lot

of your time and that was one of the

thing I wanted to ask about if you're a

hit because is the caller still online

no he dropped off okay now I was curious

because he says he spends three to four

hours with a girl on a date okay and

that seems very long for a first date

and it seems well if it counts like one

or two hours in the venue and one to two

hours at his house that's not a problem

but if you're three to four hours in the

menu that just feels very long yeah a

three to four hour date

again the same thing 1970s or the 1980s

girls these days make a decision on

whether they're going to fuck you

usually within the first you know within

the first eight seconds sometimes the

pussy is yours to lose sometimes you can

gain the pussy but yeah

three to four hours on a date that's a

long date now I will say this sometimes

Devin and I will go out on a date for

three to four hours that's because Devin

is my long-term relationship girlfriend

and a lot of guys also have to

understand this too is there's a

difference between the way you treat

women you're fucking or though and the

way you treat women that you want to be

in a relationship with the game never

ends but three or four hours on a first

date that's way too long

honestly a first date really from from

uber back to your place or her place

we're getting rejected hour and a half


well my record is about 40 minutes from

meeting until naked at my house

there you go but it's also depends

because if you're sometimes I double

stack them so like I'll have a girl at 6

o'clock and I'll have a girl at 8

o'clock and what I'll do then is I'll

put the girl who seems the least keen at

6 o'clock and I'll set her up as a 1 2

and then I have the girl for the 8

o'clock and I'm trying to take her home

that night there you go and again this

is and again your logistics have to be

on point for you to be able to pull this

off um give me one second there was

actually a really good question oh Joby

blog says I look smug in he says I look

like a smug prick in my photos he wants

to know if that's the right thing to do

if you look like a hot smug prick ya see

he look like a 300-pound smug prick not

so much Rollo's in the chat he says

mystery method it takes six hours to

bang a girl dude fuck that dude that is

dude that juice ain't worth the squeeze

man fuck that you know mister I think

that might have been accurate back in

the day if you look at the way they ran

game because it's kind of similar to the

London Nagin model because it's kind of

a long thing and you know most of the

time with tinder it's about give or take

20 active minutes of messaging okay then

you and add maybe 40 minutes to an hour

in a venue and then you go for the

clothes if you don't go for the clothes

after that you're going to be at one to

two hours on the second date but you're

going to look to take our home within 90


the second day it's going to be real

quick so that depends Allah but I'm not

sure why by us I think these six seven

hours the mystery pointed out back in

the day I think that may have been

accurate back then I don't think it is

same way like if you're gonna approach a

girl during the day I don't know if you

catch her you know for her 11 o'clock

coffee on a Saturday yeah I mean it

might take six hours to bang you know I

mean back in the day anyway um yeah J

entrepreneurs has hit that like button

guys again you guys know how this works

I never keep my I never keep the full

video on YouTube I always pull I always

put part of it up there again guys if

you want to call in to get on the show

911 for two oh five five three five six

gadgets actually makes a really good

comedy says polarizing openers get you

the highest response rate but also a lot

of trouble Carl this is the game this is

a nickname I never got into trouble for

dropping a polarizing opener where I've

gotten reported one time that I've been

warned about on tinder and that was not

for an opener that was for telling a

girl you are way too bitchy for a five

so you hurt her feelings basically yeah

that got me a report and a block but

nothing else right exactly

I understand I understand what he means

and that actually this actually is true

in real life you know being bold and

upfront with girls I guess using the

mode one being bold upfront

straightforward I mean dude with with me

too and false rape accusations and oh

you know street harassment statutes and

all this other kind of stuff but I've

always said this if it gets the

attention of law enforcement if it gets

the negative attention of law


it gets the positive attention of hot

young girls that's how that works

but I actually did the math now real

quick on my six hours for the Miss

traffic yeah if you look at daygame if

you think about let's say twenty to

thirty minutes first interaction okay

thirty minutes in texts one our first

date and three our second date with bang

you're going to be at five

yeah you can make that an easy six hours

if you look at something like Club game

I think you could easily hit that same

thing because if you mean a girl at

let's say nine o'clock at the club she's

not going to leave the club she's gonna

be what to hang around for a while right

if you number close her at the end of

the night you might have spent two three

hours together and then you have to do a

one-hour to our date afterwards so

you're easily at five hours so I can see

where that kind line comes from that

makes sense I never really thought of it

that way

cuz it's been a while since I've since

I've run Club game or even day game or

night game but you're right you actually

spend a lot more time with a girl in

Italy then then one might think wow

that's you know what it's funny like we

all sit here and laughing fiend about

those six hours that's too long but it

would appear that that that six hours is

probably a little bit closer to accurate

than then we thought Oh King Mick says

the hot chick the fat chick ratio is

definitely a lot better on bumble in my

experience it sounds to me like the

hotter girls are on bumble then on

tinder I don't know that you have that

much experience with bumble versus

tinder but what are your experiences oh

it could be but the way I see it I don't

really care how many fat chicks are on

tinder because they're getting a left

swiped anyway what I look for is volume

because if you had 500 extremely hot

chicks on bumble you're gonna have two

thousand dudes on bumble twenty thousand

dudes on bumble as well oh yeah

so I I'd rather have a tender with like

250,000 users in a city and one-to-one

male-to-female ratio then a bumble with

you know a ten to one female to male

ratio alright you know the good thing

with online dating is that it's such a

massively low time investment so it's

not a problem to like how you do my

tinder swipes while I'm in traffic on my

way to work hobby and then I then I have

my happen

on all the time so that just kind of

logs girls I get close to so I just do

though this while I'm on my way to work

or during my lunch break or something

and then I do the same with bumble so

it's not like it's taking you fucking

hours to do all three it takes you know

half an hour maybe and you can do it

while you're on them you can do it on

when you're on the fucking toilet okay

you do it on the toilet or you're taking

a shit while you're driving to work

whatever Steve the pilot actually asked

a question a lot earlier and I miss it

it says any thoughts on when getting hay

from a girl on bumble just ignoring it

and starting with a tender opener I

don't really know what that means

any thoughts I don't that hated it tire

your opener yeah I think he says when

getting hay from a girl on bumble then

he says just ignoring it and starting

with a tender opener so basically okay I

understand now so when a girl on bumble

says hey should you just ignore the hay

and just go with a tinder opener or

should you reciprocate I won't go with

something like just if you have a tinder

up there dressed and a hey and then you

add a comma and then you write your

tender opener okay just so she feels

like you're responding to her and it's

not like something you have in your

notebook on your own you just copy paste

them perfect perfect yeah you don't want

it listen they all know that that that

this is all strategic I mean this is the

this is the game of pussy but you don't

want to make it too obvious that you

know that you've done your research on

this and I just had a question in my

mind and I completely completely

I completely forgot it when crap shit

okay any other any other notes on tinder

openers well I think it's just it comes

down to the same thing I would say with

the regular openers is that you have to

come up with something that works for

you and that's why it was kind of

careful of giving guys Pacific Oprah

nurse because hey I don't want you guys

burning all my good openers right and

because and that happened with style

back in the day because he had a lot of

brilliant openers but you know who lies

more men are

gets burned when a hundred guys have

asked that same question in these panel

45 minutes in the same fucking club but

I think what you're looking for is you

wanna you want something that will give

a reaction you want something that

stands out if it triggers indignation

yes that's good or if it triggers

curiosity that's also good yeah you

don't want indifference you don't want

her to be bored you don't want to be

boring you wanna again any reaction is

better than no reaction um there's a

famous thing there's a thin line between

love and hate but a girl says she hates

you she still loves you she was hates

that she loves you so she says she hates

you so you know again with some reaction

is better than no reaction again just

like the caller said she's getting hit

with hundreds of dicks

Rollo Tomassi says it's like good no

it's just going to say with what the

opener thing is if you get good at

improv that's why I do all the shit I do

in billions or on Twitter because it's

just about be like it's a girl if you

tweet a girl I want to come on your face

and declare you my girlfriend and she

text you back hey that's fucking sexist

what the fuck is wrong with you in

between well you know I just read an

article in vogue that says sperm facials

are great for your skin I mean you're

looking kind of ragged already or

something like just plait playing with

it that's like like I get a hundred

matches every odd week on tinder if you

burn 50 of them or 80 of them and right

I mean there are billions of women out

there stop getting so fixated I'm having

to get every last single one of them

you're not going to do that burger and

even guys who are 10 out of 10 in every

demographic guys with six-figure incomes

they're six feet tall they can

benchpress 600 pounds and have 11 inch

dicks get rejected get over it


gadget says or if it triggers a shit

test that's

even better I would I would agree a

hundred percent Rollo Tomassi says this

is shit this is the shit that our SD

should still be teaching a lot of guys

Carl and I know we talked about this

some times on the red man group but we

don't really and you're gonna be on the

red mangrove tomorrow correct yeah okay


we talked about this briefly on the web

Man Group sometimes we actually talk

about it off the air but what's going on

with RSD like you know our SD used to be

the king and now they're not and the

reason why I think is that girls have

the internet - this is why you're not

giving out your best tinder openers

because there could be girls like we've

got how many people not many people you

got 75 people watching right these 75

people could tell 20 of their friends

and all of a sudden everyone you

everyone is using Karl's you know

openers on tinder so - three months from

now you know you're asking your girl

something like do you like bread heard

this all before you want to come across

as this is really who you are not

something that you're using

you also come across that this isn't

something you can say the same shit like

I got a lot of shit from a certain

contingent of trash talkers on Twitter

for saying that every guy I know who's

good with women have a script what I

meant by that isn't that they have a

literal script so they have the same

thing line by line but every guy uses

you know 80% of their game it's the same

stories the same jokes the same

escalation patterns the same everything

because they work you're once you find

something I mean us men we're not that

creating once we find something that

works we will pound the frog on yes dude

we will fuck dude we will beat that dead

horse into the ground brother hell yeah

but then you know check back to our SD I

mean the thing is I don't have much

against rst I mean I love hosing cocaine

but doesn't dude come on

but I think the biggest issue there is

you got it got to it because if you have

800 videos of your face outrunning

on who you are they know the girls know

who you are they know you have a camera

crew with you they know you're on

cocaine and they've seen you do this

exact thing to another girl in ruins the

illusion she wants to know that she

wants to think that oh I'm the only girl

he's ever done this to or it organically

happened it's not can it's like

everything aligned and he said what he

said because of what I said girls like

the feeling of the organic approach this

is why when you run lines on a girl are

you Google because I've been searching

for you all day or some stupid cheesy

pick-up line that is an obvious pick-up

line but when you're running game on a

girl the key is you have to have not a

script you have to have a system but

that system has to you have to give the

impression that this isn't coming from a

system it has to feel like it's

happening organically like it's like

everything is happening organically

because if it if it sounds canned if it

sounds scripted girls are gonna get

turned off by that in a hurry

yeah it's also one of your listeners

here had a thing with the sister

julienne scandal they've gone down the

self-development group they know that

the logic can only get them so for

anything I think that's a fair point too

because you're only gonna reach so many

men if you're only doing pure pickup

material or pure let's call it red pill

material you have to kind of dwell into

other areas I think all of us kind of do

with the self development style training

nutrition looking better and getting

into the good habits because those are

things that are going to support what

you're trying to do you're not going to

be able I like we've talked about this

on our other episode that you know

running game is a full-time job to get

effective and you have to get your sleep

you're gonna have to get your food in

you're gonna have to be in decent shape

and you're gonna have to have your

energy up because nothing is worse than

if you know like I have to do 20

approaches today I'm coming down with a

cold ice like two hours last night but I

just been eight hours of work that's not

gonna be good again

no no it's yeah the circuit

stances are not gonna be the environment

is not going to be conducive to success

you could get lucky

even Burroughs says can you give an

example of a system a system for what

like for running game like in other

words it like what what I said not to

just a little bit ago is that when

you're running game on a girl there

you're not just you're not just going

all willy-nilly this isn't like just a

random conversation you know where you

want the conversation to lead right you

were going like you're using certain

guidelines you know how can I put this

it's it's a strategy is really what it

is and strategies are not necessarily

scripted but you know that if she says

this we're going to say that you know

that if the conversation goes here

you're gonna steer the conversation

there that's my idea of a system my idea

of a system is that my goal is to

escalate verbally and sexually so as to

increase the probability of B being able

to meet up with this girl and then

fucker my system does not sound or look

like a system to the girl it's not like

I'm sitting there texting with all of my

notes no I've got my system in my head I


listen I'm extraordinary shit test

proficient I already know the venue that

I'm gonna suggest I know where I'm gonna

take her I know what time I'm gonna get

there and I know it and I know xsplit

excuse I'm gonna give her to say hey you

know you know come back to my place and

look at my and look at my goal you know

check out my goldfish collection I

already know all this my my system is to

is to get her there as quickly as

possible without her knowing that that's

what I'm doing okay so I didn't really

plan for this but I'm going to know Ben

and not all pickup artists are on

cocaine I don't actually do cocaine

anymore anyway

first of all I like to keep it

light-hearted so when we meet I'll

usually if I mean a girl off any dating

app I'll usually be like so have you

been on a lot of these things while

we're walking through the venue and

while we're walking and she's kind of

know I haven't been on that many there's

just like my four

one and I'll usually do something like

okay so what's the most fucking awkward

one you've ever been on oh wow Carly

this is great and she'll share her story

and then I'll share one of mine because

I have three or four that I kind of

switched between well I'll always try to

get hurt

well it but the story depends on what

I'm trying to you know am I trying to

get her to lighten up am I trying to you

know demonstrate higher value am I

trying to kind of give an example of you

know I that's a good story but I can pop

it and give kind of like a Goldmann

unleash style crazies to worry about the

time you ended up with the chicken you

know doing I washed and you woke up

naked three days later after having done

peyote in the middle of the desert right

right right right and you know I want

then I this is why we're walking through

the venue and then I always try to pick

usually what I'm doing today so I have

one at 6:00 and when I think I'll set up

two meeting locations about a mile or

two apart

ah good and I'll take girl one about

anything from let's say a quarter mile

to half a mile further away from the

meeting location indeed off the

direction of the other place because

then I can close the distance back to

the other reading location in about 25

minutes which means I have about five

minutes if I need to take a break or

something between anyway so that's cool

so I line up one what till then use

usually around the area where I'm going

to meet her depending on what the by

this ran then I always tried to take

them with a venue with alcohol in it and

I always try to take them to a venue

where there's comfortable seating where

it's reasonably dark and where it's not

overly crowded right because that way

when you sit down if you're sitting on a

couch next to each other that's going to

be more conducive to escalation as

opposed to sitting across from each

other with a table in between you good

and it needs to be dark needs to be kind

of a combine and then with Kino

escalation I usually start that right

away so like you'll like

touch your arm touch her shoulder etc

find an excuse to touch your hair

lightly while you're walking through the

venue oh you kind of stare around a

traffic or something so she gets used to

it then once you sit down and you work

you're working your way through your

first drink you're gonna escalate with

you may let your hand rest on her arm

for like 2030 seconds then you kind of

take her might take her hand or just

lightly touch your thigh find an excuse

to do something like then you just

escalate from there it usually goes

naturally depending on how she works and

while I'm doing this I'm trying to keep

the conversation light hearted buckin

you're always sexualizing slightly more

I don't currently but you're just

verbally sexually escalating undertone

to everything you're doing and saying

right that way that gives you plausible

deniability too you know and again girls

know what's happening and if they like

what's happening they'll let it happen

is it does that sound accurate as far as

you're concerned yeah and it's just what

the whole and and once you if you feel

like the get familiar with the feeling

oh oh shit I should have kissed her

because once you get to know that

feeling you know the right moment to

kiss her because you can usually tell

but can usually an easy trick I use is

either you brush her hair behind her ear

or you lightly touch the side of her

face because if she lets you do that

actually let you kiss her it's over yep

there you go that's exactly that's woman

or you can also do a come-hither

movement if it's kind of loud so and if

she leans in you can just go for the

kiss right there and she'll be like oh I

thought you were going to say something

and she knew she knew what was going on

listen right right plausible deniability

oh I thought you were gonna say

something no you didn't sweetie but

that's okay your secret even eat when

burroughs that's the system that is

choral system he'll he just laid out to

you what he does before during what what

he does before and during the date he

has all of the stuff in his mind before


up with the girl even up to and

including the second date this this is

Carl system this is what we're talking

about your system is your strategy

you're not just going all willing and

all right well the girl agreed to a date

where should I take that bar looks okay

right you have to have this stuff you've

got to have this stuff planned out that

is your system game is 90% logistics are

you happy easy I always figure out is

okay I'm living at this place I this is

where I want the girl to end up okay so

I need to make sure I can get her back

there within a maximum of 10 to 20

minutes of walking because anything

above 20 minutes you risk the problem of

you screw something up that's yes

deactivation she's tired yeah but I've

had that with because I made a mistake

um you know it was too far from then you

want to venue too so when we got to

venue to she was like you know actually

I'm kind of tired I'm gonna go home

right right yeah you don't you don't you

don't want that action just thank

logisitics listen I agree with you first

date our dating game 90% logistics

gentlemen if your logistics are off you

you listen a girl could know she wants

to fuck you but and again this is what I

say sometimes the pussy is yours to lose

in other words the girl has decided

before she needs up with you that she's

gonna fuck you she thinks in her mind

subconsciously okay as long as this guy

isn't a complete creep Oh as long as

he's not a complete amateur I'm gonna

fuck this guy your logistics can fuck

things up for you absolutely Joby blog

says Richard look Richard Lorena La Rue

inna ought to pronounce that escalates

sexually without saying anything sexual

what are your opinions on what are the

opinions on that I think always with

even to some extent do this in my

professional life with keno so the only

thing is I'm not gonna slap the ass or

touch the thigh of a girl I work with or

touch your hair but I'm always kind of

like patting or shoulder or touching

their arms and I do you

the guys I work with you know punch them

in the shoulder get comfortable having

physical contact with people and you

can't actually do that I just saw

someone who did a game based on that

they were not at all

escalating verbally but they were just

escalating physically and it wasn't

interesting I haven't had a chance to

try that I'm actually I tried that at

some points yeah you can burn through

you know 50 tender dates that way right

yeah or something because I think it's

an interesting proposition to try and

okay what happens if there's complete in

congruence between what you're saying

and what you're doing does that cause

intrigue or is it does that cause

intrigue and maybe arousal or doesn't

work against you I listen I'd love to

hear field reports on that man yeah I'm

not sure how that will work

I've had situations where something

similar to that happen but that was a

verbal escalation and no physical

escalation because kind of like the way

I deal with fat girls if I can

accidentally get fat fist

it's you've told us these stories off

the air before yeah well what I will do

is I just turned the Kino off right

because if there's no yeah if there's no

key no there's not going to be any

sexual tension and that you can just

have a common oral conversation with

someone over let's say you spend half an

hour or whatever and because I just kind

of think okay what would a really

awkward shy guy do and I do exactly that

it's say us my strategy for getting rid

of girl so catch feelings you just dial

the beta to 11 and you start texting

them like four times today like hi good

morning you know text at lunch hey I

missed you how's your day text them at

three o'clock hey you haven't responded

to my texts is everything okay and text

them when you would have been hey

sweetie I know you would probably miss

it today but please text me tomorrow

goodnight you just pull that and you

know maybe later

yeah all of a sudden she's ghosting you

yeah then that dries up a vagina faster

than 90% marginal taxes dry up a

business cycle well listen if I ever got

fat fished you know dude like I'm not

like I'm rude to fat girls man I

remember I was filling up my car in

Vegas and this fucking fat white girl

like she sees me you know I drove a

really nice car that was in 2012 Audi a5

and I'm sitting there filling it up and

I'm looking good that's fuckin Vegas the

biggest I got my fucking sunglasses car

is looking good I just had it washed and

she comes up she's like hey what's your

name and I told her whoa sweetheart it's

not that kind of party year just go

ahead and move on she's like goddamn you

don't have to be rude I said seriously

you need to and I was pissed I was so

pissed just because I'm a nigga doesn't

mean I'm trying to fuck you boo

like I don't know who told you that

black dudes like fat white girls but I'm

not one of those people right now most

dudes would say listen I'm not

interested or they would actually go

along with it not me I'm that asshole

Rob el 215 says I think online dating is

a great hunting ground for HB sixes

through HB 8 you're wrong there he says

but the HB tens are easier to pick up in

real life because men will hurry up

online and never approach in real life

he wants to know what our thoughts are

I've never done online dating but I

don't think that there are many eights

probably not many 7s on online dating it

might be a good a hunting ground for 5s

and fixes I'll let you comment on the

average number rating on girls on tinder

and then I will at that point I'll I'll

address his comment about tens not being

approached in real life okay so I'm

probably going to piss off parts of your

audience by saying this but do it tinder

has an algorithm that runs in the

background is similar to a chess

algorithm I think I mentioned this on

the other show now in summary what this

does it kind of tells you figures out

how hot you are based on who you like

who likes you and then over time so they

figure out okay Donovan is an ace so

we're only gonna show him sevens eights

and nines

he's not getting any tens but he's not

gonna get any fives

Wow I didn't know that so you know so if

you're a guy on tinder and you're like

why the fuck are there so many force and

fives on this apps and no tens

Wow so if your guys who's been fucking

tinder nothing but boys and fucking

sixes that's because you ain't got

access to the sevens eights ninth and

tenth yeah damn I did not know that

so again fellas Mike Karl said man if

you're seeing nothing about ugly bitches

you might want to take a look in the

mirror hit the gym take some better

pictures now I'm going to address that

dude that is I've never heard that

before that is solid fucking gold man he

says the H be tens the tens are easy to

pick up in real life because men blow

her up online and ever approach and

realize the DHB tens are not on online

dating they are Instagram models right

he does make a good point

tens are a lot easier to talk to in

public and up dude I've written and

talked about this ad nauseam over over

the years I think I've written three

articles about the ins and outs to tens

five universal truths about perfect ends

yes here's the dichotomy nines and tens

are a lot easier to talk to in public

because just like Rob said guys don't

have the balls to just go up and talk to

these people yeah they've got the guys

who walk up and try to make it knock you

as conversation but they don't they

don't have the balls to escalate at that

point but because it and because of that

it's it's much easier to talk to them

and get their phone numbers very very

difficult to fuck on the first date

sixes and sevens however are notoriously

difficult to approach in public why

because everybody approaches them

because they feel like because they're

not as attractive as nines and says oh

she's a decent looking girl let me go

and let me go and open her let me go and

talk to her guys are intimidated most

dude 99% of men are intimidated by

superhot girls so nobody ever hits on

them but the six are the seven yeah guys

hit on them all the time so six sevens

are very hard to open

but dude as soon as you run a little bit

of asshole game and get over all those

shit tests dude fuckers like taking

candy from a baby so nine and ten he to

approach very difficult to fuck sixes

and sevens hard to approach almost too

easy to fuck but I also think

I think this whole thing with you know

once you're in that upper 30% so let's

say it's anywhere from let's call it I'm

gonna say 6 to 9 because tents are so

utterly rare right that is you're not

gonna find them a lot of times they're

already gonna have a boyfriend or their

Instagram models or whatever or they're

you know getting an all-expenses-paid

vacation to divine hahahaha and that if

you don't want anything to do with her

no you don't want to touch that unless

she faints and I accept it for anyway

like it I wanted to say that it it's

better for your overall happiness to be

banging seven and a half or a seven

who's really great in bed and really

into you as opposed to a ten who's

halfway there dude listen man listen I

have fucked a shitload of tens I have

fucked even more 6s 7s and eights and

even some nines the dude I'm telling you

right now sixes and sevens are far

better sexually than nines intense dude

listen I've had great sex with nines and


I've had these I've had okay sex with

sixes and sevens but on average dude a

seven will suck the fucking black off

your dick right nines and tens yeah you

know listen close you're ready to

fucking bust the nut goes there a nine

or a 10 but nines and tens don't really

fuck that well they don't have to

because they're because again all in

nine or ten has to do to elicit a

favorable sexual response from a man is

just to take off her clothes sixes and

sevens they can kind of do the same

thing but they got to work a little

harder right so and again nines and tens

don't have to the only 9s and 10s that

suck dick like porn stars are will porn

stars okay but if you expect a 9 or a 10

out in the real world to give you that

porn star sex dude it's gonna be a while

sixes and sevens fuck you more like porn

stars than nines or tens so straight up

no I have a seven as a plate now and she

really puts in the work and that's no

better than having a girl that's just

kind of you know she knows she you're

halfway to coming as soon as she takes

off her thong or at least she thinks

that right yeah thanks kind of been

boring mess of things

it's also with if you're let's say let's

say you're a 7 or an 8 as a guy and the

girl listen 8 or 9 as a chick or you're

punching really above your weight and

she's then she secretly knows that you

know she could go out and she could have

a new guy in your place higher value or

the same value in a couple of days right

running drug game on that it's just not

gonna work nope

sure ANCA she has the ultimate and

abundance mentality though I think it

just comes down to your listeners have

some really good questions there's not

other one I wanted to cover here too

let's see those the h3 10 but they're

looking right before ya the retro fan

what are your thoughts on cocky humor

and banding when gaming alone I think

they're kind of like habanero peppers

you want them to be in there but you

don't want to overkill on them and I

think it's a risk that a lot of guys run

early on that the over game their you

know words right out of my mouth min

it's very easy to go you know what you

don't grim game for a while you get kind

of rusty and you get kind of prone to

over gaming so you run too hard of a

game and she you know if the girl asks

are you a player that's in part shit

test but it's also because you're coming

across ass pretty smooth yes not

extremely smooth but if she doesn't ask

if you're a player and then when you try

to escalate she shuts down that's a sign

you came off as too much of a player I

think if she tells you to slow down

that's a sign of okay you haven't built

enough tension or attraction yet but if

she completely shuts down when you try

to escalate and it's like you know

you're heading down the 40-yard line and

you just get sidelined and knocked into

the stands that type of shut down then

that means you over gained and it's

usually with guys who are running

mystery method style game and they're

just running the serve hardcore any

haven't memorized the run running it

perfectly and it's too perfect not only

that and I've made this mistake dude I

made this mistake many many times

especially when you know when I was you

know early on a game I didn't know how


the jerk boy faucet off like the cocky

humor I just and you know wait you know

the end a lot of girls will be polite

and they'll laugh at it but at some

point you do run the risk of over gaming

a girl um cocky humor that's probably

the area where most men over game right

because again cock and cocky humor it's

almost like a shield from using cocky

humor again dude it gives this aura of

invincibility all right well if I'm

feeling awkward let me just use some

cocky humor and don't get me wrong man

different girls require different levels

of cocky humor age and race and all that

it's trial and error but but I guess to

sum it all up you have to know you have

to use push/pull game sometimes you can

use cocky humor sometimes you can use

amused mastery and then change it back

to sexual escalation via keno with the

touching and everything so it's very

important to have nobody has balanced

game but be very very careful about

using that cocky humor game dude so many

guys just like you said use that mystery

method girls see that listen girls like

it but they don't like it too much

because now you're coming off as a clown

like is this a date or is this like

entertainment like are you gonna dance

monkey dance and start juggling bananas

we're gonna try to fucking kiss me well

I think I wrote something down just now

that was I called the genuine to game

ratio and I think a lot of guys are

scared of actually being genuine and I

think it's a very important thing it's

like we have all these rules like don't

text within three days of matching or if

she it took two hours to respond to your

text when wait 2 hours and 15 minutes

yeah don't I don't tend to follow those

rules because if a girl texts me I know

she has her phone in her hand she is in

a texting mood I'm going to take

advantage I'm not gonna grab my phone

and respond immediately but give it 30

seconds and then text her back look all

you know she's on for all you know she's

on a break and that's not gonna make it

or break it unless you you know you

respond extremely quickly you respond

extremely enthusiastically you're right

more than she writes and use under 2 to

1 texts

that totality is going to be a problem

but just responding rather promptly if

you can like my rule now is like if I

can answer within a promptly I do if I

can't and I don't and that gives you

kind of the natural flow of this because

it doesn't seem forced right that's it

genuine to gain ratio is always make

sure to maintain frame always make sure

to you know may have your amused mastery

be leading the directs have some cocky

humor in there but don't be afraid to

tell the girl you know hey I'm really

into sports and you know my favorite

team and so don't talk passionately

about it I mean have a couple of things

in your life that you can talk

passionately about and find a couple of

things that you have in common with her

or at least that she has some degree of

interest in I memorized some shit on

chick crack like I know a little bit of

horoscopes I know some palm reading I

know my name is Briggs and all these

things are in the thick crack and you

have the cube and you have the question

game and the question game is a really

good one especially if you're drinking

when you go about half way into the

first beer you run this game and it's

roughly you know okay I want to try and

get to know you so we're gonna play a

little game it's called the question

game so we ask each other questions I

asked one us one but there are some

rules you're not allowed to ask me

questions that you would normally ask to

you are not allowed to ask me questions

that I would normally answer so that

kind of that normally eliminates all the

questions that are boring typical job

interview questions where do you see

yourself in five years and then once you

get into that you can ask oh you can

always show me it's master like I had

one girl asked me during the question in

like how many girls have you slept with

and you know my first response was you

know oh I stopped counting after 400

yeah there you go right you know it's

like but I'm actually laughs there's you

like no that's not

to us okay fine I'll be honest with you

you seem like a nice girl if it works

out or not you'll be my first I love it

oh that's fucking brilliant and at that

point now she forgets about the

questions right because she knows you

that means mastery um one time a girl

asked and girls ask you this all the

time and I'll never forget this is

actually at this new bar that had just

opened in Vegas little little shitty bar

and I was there I mean my butt is a

running game and this girl says to me

she says you're hella fine but you are

way too smooth right like she told me

this like this is exactly what she told

me and so at one point you know we're

sitting there drinking sip and dance or

whatever and she says how many girls

have you slept with I said how many

girls have you slept with he says well I

don't know I said neither do i right so

in other words what I wanted her to know

was that listen have we both we both got

experience with girls and after I asked

her how many girls she slept with she

actually laughed and she said you know

what I don't know well you know what I

don't know either I think most of the

comics I think the problem guys run into

is that they kind of create I think this

was style and mysteries problem back in

the day because they kind of created

let's say they had multiple personality

disorder because Neil Strauss had kind

of he had style yeah I knew Strauss and

mystery he had mystery and then he had

Eric Moore Markovic and once they get

into a relationship or they you know

they see a girl more than once for more

than you know the 6 to 7 hours it

becomes really hard when you're

basically acting Ryan tire gun that

doesn't work at some point the girl is

going to find out you know that you have

some nerdy hobbies you are into

different stuff and you might as well

share some of the real you with them as

long as you're passionate about it and

they can see kind of the passion shining

through you they'll appreciate it

because they feel like they're getting

something genuine right right and and

that and that to me Karl is the very

definition of gay being able to being

able to being able to be I don't want to

say genuine because I don't want to just

be yourself until like you know you have

to be mask you

you've gotta be you've got to be bold

you have to approach you have to run

that game but by the same token you have

to and this is the this is the skill of

game all of the quote game that you're

running she has to think it's coming

from the same place right so when you're

you know when she should test you and

you pass the shit test you're using

amuse mastery when you tell her yeah you

know I you know I've lived in Philly for

you know only I mean I'm born and raised

here or I wasn't born here in Philly but

you know most of my family lives here

and you know just you know I'm kind of

like Philly I've been here for blah blah

blah like when you're actually keeping

it real with her and not running game

you have to be able to seamlessly

transition she has done she has to you

have to give her the impression that

that's coming from the same place and if

it's coming from this if if she gets the

idea that that's coming from the same

place even though she knows you're not

flirting with her anything like that you

have to have the same bravado you have

to have the same posture so that she

thinks that it is organic oh okay well

he's turned off the game now it's really

him no you want her to think that it's

the same person this is that you've

switched the modes at that point that's

one of those things that I think get

Rollo and a few of the other married

guys get into to us you can't shut off

the game just because she put a ring on


oh hell no gimme you have to change the

proportion of game to genuine right up

and down because you you can't

constantly be running game on your wife

but it can't constantly vomit your

feelings on her either and I think this

is kind of the dichotomous position a

lot of guys get into is that they think

okay now I am game me know I'm real me

right when I'm game me I'm manipulating

her and then I'm real me and her vagina

dries up faster than a desert does so

when the Sun comes out and that's not

really the case but it's if your real

self and your game self are two

different things and they are so in your

mind and they've not been integrated

into a point where like I know what I'm

running game mother girl sure but it's

not always a conscious process I don't

know list in my hand like okay that's a

shit test okay I need to respond this

way or you know okay that is definitely

frame check I'm you know injure

responsible the only time I do that is

if a girl tries to pull a frame check or

a shit test on the nuclear level but at

that point it's kind of like bringing

your lawyers and everything is fucked up

anyway sure right know that that that

makes perfect sense and it takes time to

get to that point my relationship with

Devin there is no in it's it's it's

weird how this works but at some point

this really does become who you are like

Devin I listen I can be a hundred

percent genuine with Devin like I can

tell her about I can tell her about

issues that I have with my family bla

bla bla bla bla like I can have a real

human moment with her but guess what she

knows not to try me in certain ways

because she knows that I'll respond like

it is the same person like the person I

was before and Donovan sharp are now the

same person it's not like and it was

weird because when we first started

talking she says there is the person who

you are and then there's Donovan and now

we are the same person I don't have to

say okay Devin is shit testing me time

to turn on Donovan sharp no this is

really Who I am now it takes a while to

get to that point but once you get to

that point you're unstoppable you're

unstoppable because it's seamless you

don't even have to think anymore it's

just it's on autopilot yeah I think

that's important but I think a lot of

guys quit before they get to that stage

getting to that it actually requires a

lot of work and it also requires working

it's not just running game and going on

dates and banging it's also doing a lot

of inner work on yourself because you

have to fix a lot of that crap that you

have stored up in your mind and in your

body over you know 20 30 40 some guys

find the red pill when they're 55 right

and you know at that point they have a

lot of shit that needs to be fixed and

not to go all Scientology but at some

point like I used journals and I still

do so I have journals that I write stuff

out that way I can go back and see okay

what was I thinking when this happened

or you know write something down you


like tonight I'll probably write

something okay had a good podcast with

Donovan here I'd the topics we touched

on here were some thoughts that came to

mind after doing the podcast while I was

drinking and I'll just write all this

down that way when I wake up tomorrow

morning or if I'm start to wonder about

it I can go back and I can look what I

what did I write out and writing stuff

out makes it conscious and the morning

you're aware of your consciousness then

the more you make your consciousness

apparent to you rather than it being

subconscious things that easier it comes

because a lot of guys have insecurities

that they don't know they have Ryan I'm

writing this military boot camp

instructor who was asked you know why do

you run these guys so fucking hard when

you train them to be Navy SEAL so it was

like well if you like a problem with

having a small dick you don't want to

figure that out while you being tortured

by the fucking Iraqis dude that was a

frame dude that was a frame check right

there right that right there was a muse

mastery I like that answer here's

something else I'll tell you - Karl

isn't I guess well I guess we'll end it

here cuz Devin wants to take me out to

dinner yes she I think we're gonna go in

and have fondue she wants to take me to

fondue and it's her time to treat what

it comes down to and Karl you you nailed


you nailed this on the head when you

said that it is a process when a girl

asks you hey are you a player or do you

have a girlfriend and you it you know

and you're you know you you confidently

ask whoa wait a minute you put in an

application all of that confidence right

that's not just a line it's not

something you say that is who you are

what gets you to that point is not just

listening to this podcast what gets you

to that point to give you the confidence

to say that or the thousands of pounds

you've lifted in the weight room right

the hundreds of hours you've spent

consuming red pill related material the

thousands of dollars you've saved the

discipline dude getting up at 4:00 in

the morning and doing spin class all of

the discipline all of the improvements

that you've made all of that has led to

who you are and girls can sniff out

incongruity from a mile away if you

haven't put in the work that gives you

the right to say that to say what you

said to her if you haven't done if you

haven't done the work that gives you the

right to just pull her in by the fucking

by that by the Jean loops and stick your

tongue down her throat

she's gonna know it a lot of guys say

well I try this and I've tried that but

none of that works maybe it's not what

you're saying maybe you need to work on

yourself first because what you're

trying to do is you're trying to lift

heavy weights without actually doing the

progressive load we can all benchpress

500 pounds eventually but you can tell

the difference between the guy who put

in the work to get there and the guy

who's just trying to use that as a cheat

code if you try to use these tinder

openers as a cheat code in real life

nude girls are gonna sniff you out they

know lose it they know that you're just

a paper tiger but if you put in the work

if you put in the work you put in the

time you put in the effort and you've

transformed yourself girls are gonna see

that so when two different guys answer

the same shit test in two different ways

she's gonna know which one is genuine

and which one is not she's gonna listen

she's gonna she's going to know it's

gonna come out of your pores just like

you said Karl men have insecurities

they're not even aware of guess what

girls poor girls are so keenly aware of

human behavior specifically men they

probably know what your insecurities are

before you even do and if they figure it

out your butt and it's not gonna be you

if she's not fucking you tonight I'll

give you the last one

well what are your chat listeners had a

really interesting questions that I

wanted to touch on before we leave so

yeah yes then would your approach to

tinder changed if you are looking for a

long-term relationship would you still

play high-risk and high-reward game and

this is a surprisingly the measure of

them insulting your audience by saying

it's a surprisingly good question but I

think the key with tinder is what you

want to do with any form of game you

want a filter because you don't want to

waste your time and what high-risk

high-reward gang does its filters away

the cold leads yes

it filters out the attention seekers


I will just remove like if a girl flakes

on me twice I will remove her like if

she flakes once Oh dudes the first time

she Phillipe Albert Albert over if she

Rochelle yells once and then flakes all

remover I just don't bother after that

or if I try to get her to meet up more

than three times I'll remover and I

think for a long-term relationship you

want to kind of you don't want to change

the high-risk high-reward game because

you still want to filter away all the

chicks our time wasters were attention

seekers who are not interested what do

you want to change is not your tinder

game per se you want to give off the

impression that you're looking for

something more serious not by stating it

explicitly but but not being quite as

let's say flippant in your profile

having more you know bethe box material

in your pictures but the main difference

is going to be when you meet up like

you're not gonna escalate a girl who

you're thinking about a lot you're not

gonna try to fuck her on the first night

you might try on like you're going to

have to try and kiss her on the first

night probably and you're gonna

definitely by the second night you're

gonna have to kiss her but at that time

you want to do some Kino escalation as

well because if you go two to three

dates and you don't try to escalate her

and all she's gonna think either he's

not interested in be is gay right

my answer to that question number one

Dennis from Denver he says would you

what would your approach to tinder

change if you were looking for a

long-term relationship yes

my approach to tender wouldn't change

would change if I were looking for a

long-term relationship and I would get

off tinder because we're guard las' of

what a girl tells you any girl on tinder

is not looking for a long-term

relationship and if you're looking for a

long-term related if you're looking for

a long-term relationship with girls on

tinder you're gonna be sorely

disappointed number one number two I

actually disagree with you Karl if you

think if you think that a girl could be

like let's just say you meet a girl at

the I don't know the grocery store and

you're out on a date with her and you

think to yourself you know what this

girl doesn't have any discernable slut

tells just she seems to have a good

relationship with her father she hasn't

played on her phone all day

I don't see any tattoos she she

renounces feminism etc etc I think this

girl and again you're not listening

you're not even thinking about this but

you're like you know what I'm not gonna

put this girl in the fuck-buddy category

but if you are making the egregious

mistake of thinking that she's good for

a long-term relationship or for training

you absolutely try to fuck her on the

first date if she lets you then you know

she's a slut

if she doesn't let you then you don't

that doesn't mean that she's good for a

long-term relationship yet it just means

you're not putting her in the slut

category as quickly if you think a girl

now if you're to the point where you

where you're looking for a long-term

relationship and you're dating for that

always try to fuck the girl on the first

date if she fucks you on the first date

you can you can summarily dismiss her

for long term relationship material um

so yes Dennis if you're looking for an


tinder is not the place that you need to

go how my strategy would change I would

get off tinder that's what I would do BK

from the rocky says Carl's better than

me fleek once and I'm gone I've got

other options out there if she doesn't

call me back I will dump her all right

very very good not making you a priority

okay excellent

um yeah I'm gonna leave it there Carl

any last thoughts before I am the

episode yeah this is a really

interesting show I think we should keep

doing a son once we get around to it's

interesting to do them because it's more

of a the Redman group has a tendency to

become more philosophical and more

abstract in nature and this is a way to

get really practical with games I'm

really enjoyed being able to get down

there get down to this point so it's

enough for what you're thinking about it

but no I love the pure dynamics because

one thing is red pill theory as on the

kind of macro level but it's another

thing when you get down to gaming a

micro level so it's not something we

really talk about that often because I

think most of the guys on there have

it's so ingrained in us we don't think

that guys out there like we have a lot

of knowledge that we don't that we

assume all the other guys have as well

and I think it's useful to be able to

kind of tell them like okay you know

what if she flakes on you once you dump

right right exactly that

the practice that that's the practical

thing and of course everybody on the

panel would sell would tell you that but

we don't you know in the red band group

is great I mean it's it's great for

everybody but I agree with you there's

so many of us and we're trying to mow

through callers that we don't really if

we were to really do a deep dive on some

of these subjects dude the broadcast

would be five and six hours if we really

really did if we really did like a deep

dive and I think that's a lot I think a

lot of times that's why we don't get too

far in the weeds but yeah I love it I

absolutely I love these shows because I

think online dating mainly tinder I

think it is a microcosm of it's sort of

a quasi microcosm of the dating of the

dating arena here in 2018 going into

2019 I think what you see on tinder a

lot of times it is real life and it's

you know it's it's good to have guys

because I don't do online dating and a

lot of guys are you know Donovan I need

advice on online dating I don't give

advice on things I don't have experience

with but it's good for me to get guys

like you who do so Karl again I

appreciate the Elissa JC says does oral

sex on the first date disqualify her as

an LCR yes

Armondo wants to know what's your

favorite movie I like The Boondock

Saints that's one of the ones I keep

coming back to but that's kind of a

nostalgic thing and a favorite movie I

actually like a line from heat and I

think I think that's a good thing to

know for dating world and never stay

with a girl who you couldn't walk away

from if the cops were at the door ready

to arrest your ass whoo Wow that's good

if you if you're willing to choose the

risk of being pounded in the ass for the

next 50 years by the Aryan Brotherhood

in jail I would I would leave the chick

you can always find young on that note

that's gonna do it for this edition of

TSR live episode 370 so you can find

Karl on Twitter at Black Label logic you

can also find his website Black Label

logic comm he and I both will be on the

red man group tomorrow more

on the red man group channel at 10 a.m.

Eastern Standard Time 7 a.m. Pacific is

gonna be early out there on the west

coast we're going to be talking about

the thought on it briefly then we're

gonna open up the phone lines typically

we take calls for the last 45 minutes or

so we're gonna be taking calls for an

hour and a half so it'll be that that'll

be that'll be a great show

so again thanks everyone for being here

and thank you again Karl and I will talk

to you tomorrow

and I will see you guys next time

English (auto-generated)

Donovan SharpeComment