My appearance on The Red Man Group Vol. 18 - What's the difference between The Red Pill and MGTOW?

There seems to be a rivalry between The Red Pill and MGTOW communities. So what's the difference between The Red Pill and MGTOW? Rollo Tomassi, Richard Cooper, Dr. Shaun T. White, myself, and special guest Turd Flinging Monkey sit down to hash this out once and for all.



Why are so many black men going MGTOW? (Negromanosphere article)

5 signs you're suffering from a MGTOW mindset (Return Of Kings article)


all right and we are live welcome to

episode number 18 of the Redman group

today's topic will be mikta this is

going to be an interesting one we're

gonna go for two hours straight we're

gonna aim to take about the first half

of it where we get this audio from are

we getting background noise from summer

here yes hang on there we go sorry that

that was my bad

anyway back to it episode 18 of the

Redman group we are alive now

today's topic is MIG tau we've got

special guest Church Flay and monkey on

along with Donovan sharp we'll be

fielding phone calls will be a number

popped in the chat if you guys want to

call in about the halfway mark will

engage you guys in the discussion rollo

tomassi of the rational male series of

course Shante Smith of the tactical

guide to women is a clinical

psychologist from the Denver area and of

course their special guest today is Turk

flinging monkey we usually start these

broadcasters by kind of doing a quick

catch-up an intro to what we've been up

to the last week's last broadcast I'll

just start you know please you don't

even do my update so you should kind of

pass on the but had an awesome week this

week we did about three live broadcasts

on o2 then went public and that serves

four and then two we're private for

patrons only one of them I did with

Donovan sharp on entrepreneurship and

money and I know my guys got wicked

value out of it I'd love to hear you

know your guys got out of it we're also

launching my website pretty soon we're

just trying to break it because would

you build a community plug into a

website to try to move things away from

social and the sucks of the world to

maintain control of your audience so you

don't ever lose access to them you want

to make sure nothing's breaking so we're

still working on that but that'll be

going live very soon so donman let me

check it off to you who's your in my far

left screen I was been going on the past

week yeah had a great week on TSR prime

time actually had both you and Rollo on

this past week so I certainly appreciate

you guys make of a time for me and my

audience you guys definitely brought the


Rollo fielded a lot of questions of

course we took phone calls on air at

least as many as we could

yeah listen I'm still banned from

YouTube and so

and I don't think I've listened I'm

never gonna come back to YouTube because

I don't want to be I want to be beholden

to the you know ever-changing you know

goalposts moving terms and conditions so

so yeah things are things are certainly

progressing in the right direction I

like the fact that I own my audience

because I own my platform so yeah go to

donovan sharp com that's where to get my

material and you'll see you guys like

Richard and Rollo on there occasionally

brother man

I was just gonna say we did some we did

some pretty interesting topics I think

when I was talking with Donna of anyway

oh yeah we were gonna go for an hour and

we ended up going for like an hour and a

half or probably more than that even but

we were talking about going like these

guys going for like what was it from red

pill the blue pill back to resume listen

put a lot of I've not been able to talk

about that kind of stuff for a while I

really I don't like to talk about the

sphere I don't like to talk about you

know what's going on I'd rather be

talking about what I what I write about

and you know just have a little bit more

meat to the matter I guess but that

sometimes you got to do that sometimes

you got it you got to you know take out

take out the trash listen got to put

people on blast been part of the gig

still working on book four it has taken

an interesting turn recently I have a

and I didn't even know I had this I have

quite a lot I quite a diverse I guess we

would call it readership or followership

whatever especially when it comes to

religion and that's what the book is

about is going to be the red pill and

religion and the interplay between what

we know about intersexual dynamics and

the red pill community and applying that

towards you know basically living life

but also in the larger social context

and religious context I'm seeing now and

and the reason I'm bringing this up is

because I'm seeing now particularly in

evangelical circles the me to movement

has kind of moved into a I guess a

paradigm shift really and I'm seeing the

me to movement being the catalyst for

women's ministries and a lot of these

you know they're not ministries that

wash your sister they're uh they're

they're they're not pastors and they're

not ministers but they're like speakers

you know mud of them they're basically

motivational speakers they're they're

like they always listened they always

want the meal title yeah well that

that's you but it's always now it's it's

some kind of combination between like

Tony Robbins and and being a pastor and

I really see this kind of cross over now

and then mix in a little bit of you know

a bit of trad con feminism in there and

right now I'm seeing a lot of the old


you know quote-unquote patriarchal

evangelical ministers and pastors and

everyone sort of taking a back seat and

because they're afraid of a lot of the

the MiG to me too

you know allegations and I think there

was one guy who I forget the guys knew

it was really a really prominent

evangelical pastor or whatever but he's

I don't think he's stepping down but

he's sort of making a realigning his

message so it's more in in keeping with

you know empowering women in the in the

church now and this all comes of course

on the heels of me too and so a lot of

that a lot of one riding about right now

it's the sort of the social and the

cultural shift within and not just

shouldn't just say evangelical circles

but like religious circles and it's

getting real real dicey right now

particularly because I've got so many

other guys that are you know want my

attention to you so I've got like a lot

of Muslim followers I've got a lot of

Jewish followers I've got a lot of shit

I've got a couple of Mormon followers

and so it's kind of sorting out you know

the best of what I can I can throw out

there and then deal with these issues

because I feel like if I'm not thorough

about it the people are going to get

hell-bent with me if I don't do it so

working on that I've in my personal life

I have just taken on another liquor

brand so I'm doing a lot of work for

that liquor brand right now so I didn't

think I would be but I am and I

and they made me an offer I couldn't

refuse basically so that's what I'm

doing with my personal life and Shaun go

on the personal front just the usual

kickboxing and alligator wrestling but I

do have a new YouTube channel you can

find me at dr. Shaun T Smith on YouTube

got my first video up yesterday and I'll

grab that link and just post it in the

chat because anybody wants to submit the

channel and I highly recommend you do

he's got good content a great book TFM

what what's been going on in your world

alright can you hear me okay

alright yep so um hi everyone so in case

you don't know me my name is purfling

monkey I'm a I have a youtube channel

it's turtling you monkey obviously just

look for it I actually beat out turd

Ferguson as a number one turd on YouTube

I have i'm on twitch TF monkey on twitch

my sex doll waifu has an instagram

celestina underscore monkey

she has over a thousand followers I have

a bitch shoot which is also TF monkey I

have two books on Amazon the doll of my

balls and sweet corn and ass so not as

prolific as Rollo but you know I have my

own literary works out there that's it

that's a bit it I don't want to like you

know for those who don't know me

there you go ye you kind of get a good

idea of what I'm about all right I just

posted Sean's new channel in the chat so

give them stuff you want to follow that

we've got a ton of questions that we're

going to get to the format today we're

going to try to get through kind of like

the discussion between the Redman group

in the first hour the second hour we're

gonna try to dedicate most mostly to Q&A;

so Donovan will be on the sound board

take calls in we're gonna post the

number you can call in probably about 5

to 10 minutes towards the end so you can

get on the line and pose your questions


I might even post the actual hangout

link in the discussion which is

something we haven't done before maybe

test it out and see what kind of

dialogue we get in you guys can join in

live and just kind of go back and forth

with us one at a time so I kind of want

to get into an origin story first of all

I find that's always a really good way

to kind of frame

you know the creator's content and work

whether it's video or the writing so


before the show you were talking about

when you started the channel if you can

kind of give everybody a bit of a

rundown on when you created your channel

and why you created the channel I think

that would get a starting TFM okay so I

started my channel in 2015 you just I

had the day off of work because was

Martin Luther King Day and I decided to

make a video I made it primarily because

I was kind of lurking in the Midtown

community for a while I was commenting

on videos but I wasn't you know I had I

had ideas I had things to share and I'd

leave like a very thoughtful comment and

I might get a couple thumbs up a couple

replies but that was it so I was like

well if I really want people to pay

attention to what I have to say I'm

probably going to have to you know go

from commenting and videos to making my

own videos and but I'm one of those

people who I don't want to just talk

into a cell phone and half-ass it

so I needed some time to actually like

okay how can I do this and actually take

pride of my work so if you watch my

original videos now the thing about my

original like probably first six months

to a year on YouTube I didn't spend any

money I use nothing but free programs I

recorded using my cell phone I use

Microsoft moviemaker the quality is

pretty dogshit

but the you could tell it's like a step

above your average I'm gonna talk into

my cell phone and upload it without any

editing kind of YouTube channel so I did

take a little bit of pride in my work

but you know in my channel I was

shooting for you know like maybe five

ten thousand subscribers in six months

and I got like 1500 subscribers my first

month and channels been doing pretty

well since then so I can't complain cool

can you can you share with everybody

what you're you know your position is on

the stucco marketplace as far as

engaging women we've got guys on the

panel that are married we've got guys

that have a girlfriend we've got guys

double date um what's your status on the

sucker marketplace and how you engage

with women right now yeah I uh what I

call I say I tapped out the other like I

want to say I think it was last year

might have been the year before when yes

means yes became a thing that's when I

fucking tapped out I was like alright

I'm out

gone I am now in a very healthy

relationship with my sex doll waifu so


very happy contented no complaints is

that is that considered McTell amongst

us you know what who knows

I've been chastised by some big tel monk

saying that because I have a sex doll

that's a simulacrum of a woman and so

I'm still blue pill I need to just go no

FAP and cum in my pants once a month

during a wet dream

or else I'm not a real big towel there's

there's all kinds of factions in in you

know cliques people with their own ideas

of who's a real MIG tau and who isn't so

I don't I don't get into that shit you

know whoever wants to play king of the

MIG tau can go play it somewhere else I

don't care yeah there seems to be a lot

of discussion and controversy and the

community as far as what a real makes

ours and what discussion of what that

should look like I think we even got

some messaging when we mentioned that we

were gonna go live with this is why

would you get T FM on he's not even a

real big test for things so I think that

make x in general tend to agree on a

number of things like their

anti-feminism auntie you know socialist

values for thing they tend to keep women

at a certain length depending on whether

that's complete monk with no engagement

or at a certain distance or with at

least some enlightenment viewing it with

a red pill lens I got a bunch of

questions here I know that the guys on

the panel will probably chime in from

time to time or or maybe expand on it so

let's just dive right into it because

we're we're gonna try to take questions

and do Q&A; in about 50 minutes one of

the ones that came up was the biggest

point of contention I see that make tau

seem to conflate anything that a guy

does to an Cruz attractiveness to a

woman as a pussy barrier what your

thoughts of that it's the thing is you

get like almost like trying to judge

someone's thoughts you can't tell

somebody's motivations for doing

something if someone wants to exercise

and lose weight yeah it's going to have

the effect of beat your being going to

become more attractive to the opposite

sex but it's also going to help your

your standard of living your quality of

life you're going to have better health

outcomes you're going to be a lower risk

of diseases so there's all kinds of

personal reasons for doing something

which also has an ancillary benefit of

attracting the opposite sex

I think that there are some things that

are obviously therefore trying to

impress the opposite sex and those are

obvious tells but then there are things

that are less that are more subtle or

which can have multiple motivations so I

think some people might be conflating

things which like for example I get

sighs if somebody goes to the gym and

exercise is to maintain a healthy

lifestyle they're not doing that because

they're trying to you know get laid

they're trying to impress women but if

somebody purposefully goes out dresses

and fancy clothes drives flashy cars

waste a lot of money there's really no

other reason to do that other than to

try to impress people now it's it's

funny if that's your job like if you

have a business or some type of job

where you have to impress clients that's

fine but if you do it for the the

external validation it's particularly

from women I can see that as being I

don't say it's an issue like you do you

I don't give a shit but I can understand

why people would call you out on that

and be like you know you need to kind of

live life for yourself if you enjoy

doing something for you that's fine but

really look inside yourself and ask

yourself why am I doing this am i doing

this because I like the attention from

other people or am I doing this because

it genuinely makes my life better it's

like these women who say that even if

they were on a desert island they would

still do their hair and makeup no they

wouldn't they're doing it for attention

they they dress the way they do they do

what they do for attention and so I

don't have to be it's a case-by-case

basis but not everything that gets

female attention is necessarily for

female attention somebody you know

qualifies is doing it for yourself as

opposed to doing it to get laid and

Donovan you want to hop in you yeah yeah

definitely um what's going on TFM this

is the first time I've talked to you but

yeah it's it's interesting I don't know

where I don't know where you would put

yourself as far as the the McDowell

camped there are many many different

types of big tell I call these kinds of

people I'm about just about to describe

low-level MiG towels in other words migt

house who would say guys like donovan

sharp who admits that he enjoys the the

the company of women

and you know does things to impress

women is somehow weak or feeble minded

or that he works or or that he worships

vagina and to that I would say this oh

no I'm not saying that you I'm not

saying that you endorse this philosophy

I'm not saying that you don't but yes

most if not all men find the red pill

and or migt out because of heartbreak or

sexual frustration nobody fine like

nobody finds the red pill or mig towel

if they get fat right nobody finds the

red pill or McTell if they go broke they

find it because they got cheated on or

they can't get laid or something to that

effect yes women are usually the genesis

of men finding these communities but as

men we quickly find out that if you

focus on women even with red pill

awareness you're gonna get burned so in

that regard I completely agree with you

but something that we preach in the red

pill and what I'm not sure if you're

aware of this or not you seem like a you

seem like a pretty intelligent guy is

that women should never be the purpose

of your life well incidentally enough by

not making women your focal point you

become more attractive to women which in

turn gives you more opportunities with

them but uh but we're not gonna sit here

and say that we don't enjoy a woman's

company and I'm and I'm not gonna let

these low-level make tough so I guess I

said all that to say this what is like

what is your stance on these low-level

migt house you say because I mean

apparently you caught some heat too oh

you've got a sex dollar or whatever or

you actually admit that you like you

know the the female form so you're not a

real big towel what do you say to guys

like that well ok the bar for mid cow's

extremely low like a lot of people have

a problem with Mike because I'm a

libertarian politically and I don't hide

that fact but I also don't conflate my

libertarianism with McTell philosophy so

when I talk about something like

libertarian economics or something like

that I'm not saying that this is MIG tau

and if you disagree with my politics

you're not a real MIG tau all real

mid-tower libertarian I don't play that

game but there are other kind of cliques

within mgtow who do play that game this

unless unless you're a hundred percent

like that unless you agree with them

politically socially morally all their

everything then you're not a real MIG

tau only they're a real dick tau as far

as women like you I've done videos about


not to get too far in the weeds but the

reason why basically walking away from

women makes you more attractive to women

is because of hypergamy because you're

signalling that you're higher than them

and women are attracted to men who are

higher than them so you suck up to a

woman and kiss her ass and treat her

like a queen she's going to you're

signaling that you're lower than heard

she's gonna be turned off by it right

walk away from her and tell her bitch

you ain't shit there's like oh this guy

something he's got something going on

there's something about him something

intriguing now as far as enjoying women

I think most men unless you're gay

enjoy women the question isn't whether

women because we're hardwired

evolutionarily and biologically to find

pleasure in women we're biologically

programmed to want to do nice things for

women in fact this is one of the reasons

this is something I mean we could talk

about those sex off thing I don't know

how you guys feel about that but I

actually enjoy you know taking care of

celestina who's my a sex doll waifu and

i actually drive pleasure from it

because we're hardwired as as males to

to find pleasure in doing nice things

for women the question is where do you

draw the line or as Barbarosa would say

when is the juice not worth the squeeze

and i think we've gone way past that

line and you like objectively I can use

an example I was gonna save this for

later like to try to like trip you up

like the Pharisees and Jesus and

everything but I'll just go ahead and

get this off get this off my chest now

so for example like cuz we got some some

business owners some business gurus here

so let me ask you a business question so

if I was approached by someone who

wanted to start a business with me and

they were like okay I'd like to go into

business with you TFM okay sounds good

so TFM I want you to put up 90% of the

equity for the business I'll put up 10%

you put up 90 but when if we dissolve

the company I get half the company you

have to pay my salary for life and any

intellectual property we create within

the company belongs to me sure that's

marriage right

right I tell them to go eat a dick and I

think most people would tell you to go

eat a dick so the question is at eat

what if the guys at but wait I told you

I wouldn't do that I'm not that type of

guy I would never screw over my business

right I signed a contract that says you

can keep your stuff in the four

of a prenuptial agreement yeah will fit

shake and pinkie swear it's all bullshit

so the thing is it's not the question of

our are women nice or women you I don't

believe women are evil whenever someone

talks about how much they hate women I

always tell them look I don't hate

mosquitoes for being mosquitoes and I

don't have them in women

if you understand women you have to be

realistic about what women are what

women can provide and then you have to

ask yourself how much are you willing to

pay for what women can provide realistic

okay all right okay

yeah listen a lot of and I would say

this not and not again not to step on

anybody who wants to say anything like

this but a lot of these low-level mgtow

say things like the juice isn't worth

the squeeze which to a guy like me is

code for it's too hard so I'm not gonna

do it and I'll put it to you like this

running your own company is hard

learning to fight is hard beat becoming

proficient and something like Brazilian

jiu-jitsu is hard but running a company

and learning how to fight both have

their hazards and they have their

rewards their shit that could go

sideways if you're not prepared and just

like you pointed out it's the same with

women so long as you know who they are

how to handle them and how to handle

them you can mitigate their hard-wired

efficiency so a business owner has to

learn how to handle potential pitfalls

you know get his accounting books in

order make sure he's up to code etc etc

you know he doesn't say well I don't

like the fact that I have to pay

employees or pay taxes are paid for

advertising or work 16 hours a day the

juice just isn't worth the squeeze just

like a dude who wants to learn how to

fight saying well I don't want to be put

in chokehold by you know sweaty dudes

and doing complicated drills on the

floor the juice isn't worth the squeeze

it's to me it's it is as though low

level MiG towels think that having

relationships with women on any level it

should be easy and it's not

now what's your state now topless and

you and I are are like-minded as far as

marriage is concerned marriage should

absolutely never be an option rollo

tomassi here is the male version of the

unicorns been married for over 20 years

Barolo says do as I say not as I do

right and for good reason so they so in

other words they just say fuck it it's

too hard the juices and work isn't worth

the squeeze and it's a cute analogy and

it makes it makes sense on a poetic

level but to me that's what weak minded

weak minded people say when something

pushes them past they're come

it's owner or just like you said they're

just not willing to pay the price no

it's not about it being hard I think

you're conflating when when Mick Taos

say women aren't worth it they're not

saying it's too hard to make it work

they're saying the deal is shit and it's

not worth it it's not just marriage like

words like I used the business analogy

earlier like a business partner who

wants to only put up 10% of the equity

but what's happened that's all the

intellectual property want you to pay

their salary for life the reason why I

tapped out when yes means yes became a

thing was you know prior to that yeah

you could you could have short-term

relationships you could have one-night

stands you could have girlfriends as

long as you didn't cohabitate and put

yourself at risk for common-law marriage

or she liked that you were fine probably

yes means yes is now the risk for a

false rape accusation like I've seen so

many guys who a vindictive ex-girlfriend

after like they were dating for months

and then they break up six months later

she accuses him of rape and his career

is over has he's you know and she just

wrote the accusation no arrest no charge

no please report none of that shit so at

that point it's this a thing it's not

like it's not a matter of oh you just

have to know the right skills you have

to do this no these are guys like unless

you're willing to put a ring on it and

to everything this woman says she has

this she's got these chezy's tools via

the government via feminism to destroy

your life and it's not that oh if I

found just if I'm red pill enough if my

cock is thick enough if I hit her in all

the right places and tickle her I perk

of me just right like it's some kind of

safety you have to know the combination

to then I'll be fine because that's

clearly bullshit there's been too many

you know alpha male celebrities and like

even James Dean who's a male porn star

who fucks professional got falsely

accused of rape by his ex-girlfriend

so there is no and I've talked to guys

on my talk show who have successfully

gotten their wives during the divorce to

basically not divorce rape them but they

had to use like pity and they had to

make her feel sorry for him so and all

that stuff like that

basically you're very lucky if you get

out of a situation unscathed

and when Nick Tao talked about it's not

the juice is not worth the squeeze

they're not saying it's too hard they're

saying it's not worth it there's so much

like it's like you could do a lot of


and you have even cue everything right

you do 100% of the things right and

still get fucked and that is the problem

there is no path that leads to victory

there's like a path that leads to you

have a 25% chance of not getting fucked

dad only it's not worth it okay so I

just wanna hop in here because I'm

because I'm angry with you on marriage

and the way that it's structured in

today's Western world it's a dumb idea

for any guy I mean the only thing that I

ever tell guys if you're gonna get

married make sure you marry a cross her

up but we'll set that aside for the time

being I want to ask you have you read

Rollo's rational male book series or

even the first book I have not I've I've

heard I've heard the name I don't have

like time to read books unless

somebody's paying me for like a

sponsored video let me open the next

questionnaire that I got unless this guy

says I accept that marriage and its

present incarnations extremely risky and

hilarious proposition for men today but

is it is the concept of monogamous

marriage and inherently bad idea in your

view no in fact monogamy even though

it's not natural look if you look at a

human evolution pair-bonding is not

something that you know even any of the

Apes are are known to be so it's not

natural however socially there's too

many benefits for monogamy to ignore

because without monogamy

you'd have tournament mating you'd have

basically the top 20% having harems of

all the women and then you'd have

basically the lower 80% of them and

killing each other and when you have

that kind of society you can't build a

good civilization because the men are

too busy killing each other to get

access to that harem then to focus on

building things and inventing things

so monogamy serves a very important

purpose in a society but it's unnatural

which is why it has to be enforced the

problem with feminism is it has freed

women of their part of the deal like men

had a deal to make they had to kind of

hold back their their natural urges like

because you know humans are a tournament

mating species or they started out that

way so you know the laws in government

and religion and all these institutions

hold back men's the negative aspects of

male nature very well but then they also

used to hold back the negative aspects

of female nature and then if feminism

came along liberated them so now women

can just go

buckwild go a BSI Pergamus that they

want as slutty as they wanted how dare

you shamed them but men are still held

to their part of the deal and that's

that's why marriage is dead fucking

feminism from stake through its heart

okay so I've got another questions kind

of got two parts she says what would you

say to a 17-year old and experienced guy

who was on the fence about going nicked

out and then the second part is we've

all heard the negatives that they think

they're giving up on women what

positives does he think he's giving up

what I guess I need you know provided

you're giving up on it well you have to

be realistic about what women can

provide I use the analogy of you don't

buy a dog expecting to have

scintillating conversation and play

chess you buy a dog to do dog stuff with

you wanted to you know lick your face

you want to maybe go hunting with you

you get a dog to do dog stuff you get a

woman to do woman stuff a lot of times

men project onto women male attributes

because men women are different what we

define is love are defined by our

biological and reproductive instincts

and roles so male love because men are

their protectors and providers in a

relationship male love is very

sacrificial men wants to support men

want to protect men want to provide and

a lot of men mistakenly projected onto

women and they're looking for someone

who will support them someone who will

protect them they want that they want

male love to be mirrored back onto them

from a woman and that is not going to

fucking happen so you have to be

realistic about what female love is what

women are capable of and ask yourself

what is the price you're willing to pay

for that and when you really think about

it bitches ain't shit but hoes and

tricks like these nuts and stuff let me

jump in here real quick I'm actually

kind of amazed you haven't read my stuff

because that's exactly what I go into in

the first book when it comes to the

differing concepts between men and women

of what they're what love is to them you

got half of it I think that men's

concept of love tends to be more

idealistic you said sacrificial I think

certainly sacrifice goes along with that

idealism if you go and you look at how

men's brains are structured as compared

to how

brains are structured women are far more

prone to emotional interpretive

processes men are more prone to

instinctual and rational processes what

I see going on especially now is women

have taken that idealism and used it and

repurposed it to you know to serve them

whether that's legally or socially or

emotionally they've sort of learned that

they've learned the game they learn the

hack and so I always say this I said you

know women's concept of love is

opportunistic because that opportunism

is inspired by hypergamy they're looking

for that best mate they're looking for

the guy who is a you know either at or

above themselves in sexual market value

and so what that does is that kind of

colors every aspect of their

interactions with a guy when it comes to

intimacy and it comes to love and all

that stuff they have to go and they have

to pass through that hypergamy to get to

a point where they can love a guy but

that guy has to qualify for that before

he can actually be someone worthy of

love and so when you take those two and

you take the idealism of a guy and you

take the prerequisites and opportunism

of women and I mean that it is nice and

is really again what we're talking about

is that that goes back to women's

evolved high Pergamus nature it's not

that it's good or it's bad it can be bad

it can be good it just depends on how

those two come together and they work

together as a complementary team I'm

always I'm very big on saying that women

should never be the focus of a man's

life but they should be a complement to

that man's life there you go and I think

that you know I mean we've been moving

discussing all this you know the ins and

outs of how things are in the now one of

the questions I had was is it is it that

marriage is such a bad deal right now or

is it that it's intrinsically a

monogamous relationship is intrinsically

a bad deal for a guy meaning is monogamy

always going to play on

guy's sacrificial I idealistic nature no

matter what so whether we live in the

modern society where you know the

divorce and the marriage laws are what

they are or we live you know I don't

know back in the 1500s or something

where things were a little bit different

and men had a little bit more leverage

is that would there be any migt house if

we're just Lymon ating the idea of

marriage or the idea of monogamy at all

would if it were more basically a more

fair deal would that would that mean

that guys were make tao say you know

what I'm gonna I want to get with the

woman I'm it's part of who I am I mean

for Christ's sake I mean you got you

have a a waifu okay you have a sex doll

as your wife so yeah I mean is that not

projecting that me I see that as a I see

that as a fail-safe or sort of a

substitute for what is really you know

what is a real need or as a real desire

for guy so is it just that monogamy is

bad is it bad is it that marriage is bad

is it that just the whole thing is bad I

mean show you guys just go back to what

we were just talking about where we're

just hit it and quit it you know and we

were we're wired to you know seek out

unlimited sexual opportunities with

unlimited sexual partners should we just

go for that is it as good as it gets

when you are being I mean if you were

able to if you were able to to work it

out so that you could you could you know

facilitate your sexual nature would

there be any big cows after that all

right so yeah let me go let me step back

so I actually did a series of videos

called the it started out as a

traditionalism cycle but then it became

the egalitarian cycle and then it became

life history theory cycle so it's like a

triangle I don't know if I I don't know

how this works I don't really use Google

Hangouts I'm wondering if I could send

you a link all right do I hit the little

the Google Drive button Oh

yeah you should be able to in the what

I'll do is I'll share it and the public

shot so people can see it alright so let

me give me a second I know this is

horribly unprofessional let me just find

this so this is all this Olympics this

is actually this is a working theory it

probably took me over a year and I mean

I do a pot roll Oh like I've heard your

name I just haven't like you know ain't

no one got time for that so I just

haven't had a chance to read your books

but I followed you on Twitter I pretty

much agree with everything you have to

say so I'm sure I'll love your books I

don't want too much hitting on you and

any stretch of the imagination but I

think you'll appreciate this whole like

life history Theory kind of triangle

graph I made so basically you have you

have three potential societies you have

a hard patriarchy you have a soft

patriarchy than you feminism and if you

look on the top you have male

disposability and then you have

hypergamy something I used to think

actually that a hard patriarchy was a

better system because was the least kind

of centric but actually a hard

patriarchy that maximizes male

disposability because the enya of the

Warlord's and the harems and you have

the top 20% with all the women the

bottom 80% killing each other life

pretty much sucks for the average guy

and obviously feminism sucks so really

the best system or what I say is the

least shitty system because there is no

ideal utopia we're all gonna skip

through the fucking fields of daisies

and sing Kumbaya the least shitty system

is a soft patriarchy what defines a soft

patriarchy is men they're it's there's

monogamy men have authority over women

but they also have responsibilities over

women and over families so think like

you know basically America prior to 1920

or you know stuff like that like you

know aprons and apple pies before women

could vote before women could you know

Institute all these laws and take over

government but we're not talking about

Isis or the you know like we're Boko

Haram where they go in they kill all the

men they take all the women as sex

slaves and you know all that I'm not

talking about that that's a hard

patriarchy we're not trying to be a more

tanned Joe we're just trying to have a

balanced system like a Rolo you use the

term complimentary I use the term

balanced it's not equal women are not

equal to men they never have been never

will be but you can have a balanced rule

a ship where we have to acknowledge that

men are responsible for women they are

responsible for families so because

they're responsible for something they

have to have authority over it when that

authority in that responsibility is is

is managed and balanced you have a

functional Society when that authority

is stripped away the name of equality

you have feminism and you have cancer

okay I want to move into the next

question here to keep things going along

this guy's not meant to be product

provocative but why are so many

prominent big toes anonymous online

because we don't want to be unemployed

basically if you docks yourself it you

know and I have those of you who show

your face and use your name that's fine

but in my experience if you show your

face and use your name you're either

gonna be self employed or unemployed so

are those of you who are self employed

more power to you you earn that fuck you

money and you live your life not

everybody is lucky enough to be

self-employed and they don't want to be

unemployed so here we are that's that's

a that has always been my take I don't I

do not care if people want to be

anonymous or if they want to show their

face all I'm really caring about is what

their ideas are it's important to

remember particularly in this day and

age when it's dangerous to put your face

out there because yeah yeah and let me

let me chime in here too I think a lot

of a lot of the opposition kind of use

the why don't you show your face they

don't really care what you look like the

reason why they want you to show your

face is so that they can do the very

thing that they want to do which is dot

you expose you etcetera etc but what

they're doing is they are they're

they're challenging you under the guise

of you're not ballsy enough to to put

your name in your face out there so

you're not a real man it's almost like

you know kids being on the plate you

know kids on the playground I dare you

to do this on the seesaw if he doesn't

do it oh you're chicken he doesn't eat

nor eats his leg it's it's it's

literally the same concept so they wrap

this whole hey show your face up in this

in a way that sort of tries to challenge

people luckily luckily for most of us

you know we don't foolishly take that

bait just like you said you're either

self employed or unemployed alright I

got one last question

here that we took prior to the show and

we're gonna do the group shot and some

kind of like open stuff this one was TFM

is there any contemporary society that

gets it right in today's world where he

wouldn't be a big town yeah the problem

is feminism is being actively exported

from the West and they it's primarily

done via aid like so America and you

know all oh no it's America mostly that

you're the UN they go into these

countries and they basically offered to

build schools and they offer food and of

course the government's not going to

turn down free money so they build these

schools for girls and then they fill it

with you know and then they have a bunch

of people come in there try to basically

brainwash the girls into turning against

their their men and talk about how

oppressed they are i think it's happened

and i came from what african country it

was but they built these schools for

girls and the girls basically got

educated came home and started like

chewing out their husbands about how

oppressed they were and the men were

like what the fuck's happening like why

did why are america giving them or they

want rights until the problem isn't like

even if you found like i mean you look

at countries like Singapore or Hong Kong

or or even Eastern Europe there are

countries that kind of get it actually

it's kind of interesting how you have

like the former Soviet Union countries

they're coming out of communism and

they're kind of the pendulum swing the

other way and then you have the West

which won the Cold War and they're

swinging the opposite way but the

problem is nothing is static and think

about this these guys who came back from

World War two in the 40s and they they

married their sweetheart and then like

10 20 years later second wave feminism

happened completely burnt the

institution of marriage to the ground

and it's not like you get grandfathered

in it's not like oh you got married in

the 40s these laws don't apply to you so

even if you go to this country that has

traditional values and you find a woman

and you stay there that's a very

important if you want to go into Walt

hunting you fucking stay there don't

bring her back to the west but let's say

you do stay there

there's nothing stopping the West from

exporting feminism to that country and

fuck just like second wave feminism you

might have a good couple decades and

then all of a sudden the country

embraces feminism all the laws get

changed and then your wife files for


and you're right back where he started

cool all right want to deal with a super

chat question that came in from moto he

said I would really love to have your

thoughts and stefan molyneux okay I

assume he's talking to me

I I have what I call a 51% standard when

it comes to you know if I support

someone or not I generally support

stefan molyneux I was probably 80% of

what he says some of the stuff he's kind

of especially when it when it was the

whole Trump thing he's kind of gone

taking a pretty hard right wing turn and

he's not being as objective as he used

to be and obviously because he's married

and has a daughter he is he is what I

call a gynocentric blind spot there is

to Mary talked about this the other day

rola so I did a I did an interview with

him and when we were talking about men's

issues I guess for whatever reason he

decided he wanted to sort of get back

into talking about the manosphere

because he used to there should be

though that he never posted I just want

to say he never he never posted that

interview I did it February and people

are still asking me today where is that

I'm like I don't know because we

recorded it only time I've ever really

even talked to the guy face to face

he didn't even you know I don't even

think the guy I even registered on the

guy's radar up until you know I started

making waves I guess but yeah and so

it's as far as I know that that

interview is still in the can if anybody

has questions about it you can feel free

to go and ask Stephen Watson Molly knew

about that but I I agree a hundred

percent I think he definitely has a

blind spot when it comes to that I was

also gonna say is that I I understand

MiG Taos stance when it comes to true

you know trad cons and I would

definitely put him in that group of trad

cons because I was basically he and and

Jordan Peterson are very much trad cons

and I've kind of changed my mind about

Jordan Peterson these days so when

outside drug abuse is UFO yo he's an

absolute trad con or we like to call

trad cox so i want to differentiate

between at rad-con or traditionalist and

someone who what I call patriarch

so you have an obviously patriarchy is

very traditional if you want to be very

you know definition like a more what the

word like exact I guess so I I used to

call them patriarchal traditionalist

versus gynocentric traditionalists that

just that was too much word salad so I

just changed it to patriarchs and

traditionalists so a patriarchy is

someone who advocates a system which I

talked about a few minutes ago it's a

balance between responsibility and

authority and yeah so men are

responsible for women they're

responsible for family therefore they

need to have authority over those things

a traditionalists pushes for traditional

gender roles but it basically still

believes in gender equality they think

that first wave second wave feminism are

great it's only a third wave that's bad

so they're cancer because they're not

living in the real world they're trying

to advocate a system which can exist and

they're they're trying to push into also

because a lot of them are playing

politics they don't want to lose the

next election so everything has to be

men's fault you know they want to blame

porn they want to blame sex dolls they

want to blame prostitutes they want to

blame everything other than feminism

because they don't want women to vote

for the left so they just they have no

solutions they're actually helping the

problem they're not actually part of the

solution they're part of the problem

because they refuse to actually hold

women accountable for shit and they want

to put all the responsibility on men

while ceding all male authority to

feminism so people like Prager you

Jordan Peterson stefan molyneux I think

again 51 percent rule when they're

talking about things what's amazing you

talk to a conservative about business

and you talk about you know how taxes

are hurting businesses and people are

shuttering their business because they

can't afford to make money because these

crazy laws and like oh absolutely yeah

that makes perfect sense oh fuck damn

you Obama but then when you talk about

will the laws are gotten so shitty for

men men are not going to get married

they're not going to form families and

they're like we need to ban porn we need

to punish men for walking away from

women it's like you just said 30 seconds

ago how it's the government's the


and now you're blaming men when it comes

to it's the same thing

the problem and the promise of women

it's the system it doesn't know if you

want to talk about politics for a minute

I mean there's some really like way

batshit crazy ideas that come from

politicians now Damien I saw an article

a couple months ago from a Texas

governor I don't know somebody in the

legislature that wanted to pass a bill

that would prevent men from masturbating

that was a joke that was basically it

was she was trying to do that as a

protest because they were talking about

regulating abortion look oh you're

trying to keep your laws on my vagina

I'm gonna put my laws on your balls you

know hey listen it might start out as a

joke but you wait you will know yeah

every joke whenever you see Chris Rock

live on a stage you know cracking jokes

I'll tell you what's not a joke is there

was I believe it was a senator and

somewhere in one of the southern states

was talking about how they wanted to

make it illegal for guys to misrepresent

themselves with like women when they're

dating and they never do that if you say

hey man I'm an attorney or I'm a doctor

or something like that and you bullshit

just to get into the girls pants or

something like you know 90% of pickup

artists will do you know misrepresent

what they are you know because women

would never do that yeah exactly and it

hasn't gone anywhere but it's stuff it's

stuff like that where they want to make

that illegal or they want to make it you

know a tantamount to rape before saying

something like that if the woman gets

into it she has sex with them under

false pretenses then then it's then you

got a legal issue you know but what's

funny is like we that we laugh at that

and in didn't go anywhere but you know

that there's attorneys just going oh man

can't wait you know they maybe they made

stealth engrain which is if a man if at

the condom breaks or the man takes the

condom off without telling the woman

that's great this but if a woman lies

about her birth control right I want

them out of the goddamn trash can and

turns it inside out rubs it inside of

her no crime has been committed so it is

rape if a man does it it is not even a

crime if

woman does it yeah there's no question I

think that the reptile community and the

MiG Taos agree a lot but not a lot I

mean pretty much every single law that's

written out there is not in your favor

if you have a penis in your pants right

that oh I'm good so just kind of check

in with Sean cuz he's coming in and out

Sean can you hear us are you on right

now or yeah I'm on right now I had I've

been having some struggles over grass

once I look right but I got I got to go

to audio only so I don't know yeah did

you want to chime in and you know a CFM

some questions are you have any comments

not sure where you're at yeah let me get

caught up here a little bit I find I

think I got things squared away for the

moment hey you sound great all right

thanks all right guys did you have

anything else on the panel before we

maybe start moving into the Q&A; yeah

this is general question TFM what would

you say is and I don't know that I can

really find any difference but what

would you say is the main point of

contention if there is one between the

red pill community in the MiG tile

community or I mean are we two sides of

the same coin with you know you know

slightly differing fundamentals I think

really the main contention is if you are

of the mindset that a man because women

do provide some benefits if you think

that it's worth it in the current year

with all the shitty laws on the books

and all the risks you're taking I think

most micked I would say you're

delusional but I noticed a lot of people

kind of the red pill community would say

well if you just use these techniques if

you have this mindset if you maintain

your frame if you your alpha enough if

your dick is thick enough if you you

know tickler in all the right places

you'll be fine and I just I don't think

that's realistic

I think that's being hopelessly it's I

applaud your optimism but I don't think

you're I think you're being naive I

don't I wouldn't I wouldn't call it

optimism or naivety what what I would

call it and I think you hit on it a

little bit earlier it's what is it worth

to you and you know men Alissa we take

calculated risks and I think the number

you gave you know you have a 25% chance

of not getting fucked I would say that

that's probably inaccurate I don't think

anyone will ever know I know you're

probably saying that tongue-in-cheek but

you know you know point taken you have a

better-than-average chance of being you

know fuck that you know virtually fucked

in the ass by a girl if she does

sides to do or say something but what I

would say what I would say is this it's

not techniques it's not and in the way

it's characterized you know alpha frame

and this net and the other like no

that's really what it is if you are if

you're the right in it and it I mean

we're not saying oh you gotta have a you

know a 12 inch cock or anything like

that it's it's not like that to me

that's that's almost like caricature

baiting what we mean to say is that all

women like like women really are the

same way and I think rolla said this

before the hardware is all a little bit

different but the sought the operating

system is exactly the same there is

nothing that you're going to be able to

do you can do everything right and still

and still get screwed over by a woman

but if you know how to the better you

the the more adept you are at handling

women the the the least your late like

you reduce the odds of getting taken to

the cleaners in some way shape or form

is there a possibility that you could

even if you run what we call airtight

game and all this stuff of course but

just like you said you know for me

and I think I speak for a lot of guys is

that women do have ways of elevating a

man's life

no women don't complete men they never

have they never will but you know the

presence of the presence of a woman you

know you know access to regular sex a

woman who behaves herself a woman who is

feminine etc etc to me that's worth it

and I'm not going and I'm not seeing

that you're that that that you're

telling me this but there's nothing

naive or optimistic about anything

because I'm well aware of the fact that

with every woman I spend time with I'm

living on borrowed time but for me

that's worth it yeah and Sean wants to

hop in before I pass it over to and

there was a comment here this is

libertarians are a hundred percent glue

pill and I'll tell you that I identify

politically as a libertarian parties and

there's no you know if you're this

political party you are blue pill purple

pill red belt your political beliefs

don't necessarily have to align with

whatever pill you take if you want to

kind of distill it down to that but Sean

I want to toss it off to you men yeah I

also just on that point I also identify

as libertarian in I don't really

understand that comment because I think

when you're here if you have a

libertarian mindset by definition you're

you're pretty in touch with

humans work I think but getting back to

this question what's the difference

between the red pill community and

Midtown I do think there's this huge

risk element or risk tolerance element

where if you're if you're more the red

pillow community you're willing to

tolerate the fact that women are risky

and I think the MiG Taos

from what I see and I don't study them

closely and I don't know a lot of mgtow

guys but it seems like there's just this

resignation that it's just not worth the

risk and I get it I wouldn't I wouldn't

judge that harshly because I gotta make

that decision somewhere in life that you

know like I used to skydive and at some

point I decided alright that's that's

just not worth the risk anymore cuz I

got a kid and I had this and that the

other thing so there are there are areas

in my life where I say it's not worth

the risk but I think one of the dangers

in them mindset if you're not willing to

take on risk is that how you think about

the people that you bring into your life

if you want to understand how people as

a group operate you can think deductive

Lee meaning meaning you take principles

like hypergamy and the pre-fault

principle and so forth and you can apply

it to groups of people but if you want

to understand how an individual

functions you need to think inductively

means you need to do the the hard work

of gathering data about the individual

factors in that person's life and how

they make decisions and that's what

dating is and that's why dating sucks so

much because you're investing a huge

amount of energy in this inductive

approach of trying to understand how an

individual works and so I think one of

the one of the prices that that I think

make Taos pay sometimes when they resign

women to a group is that they lose sight

of the individual and this isn't

something that's unique to make town you

know I'm doing it right now and in

America this is what we specialize in

where we say okay everybody who's in

this group is gonna act this way and so

I think when when you um drop your guard

a little bit and you do allow for that

risk you really have to understand the

deductive principles about how people

work but you also really have to be able

to do the work inductively and look at

how the individual works I think you're

missing the forest for the trees it's

not a question of will this individual

woman behave in a specific

way it's really a matter of what does a

woman bring to the table and what is she

worth it period like basically in my

opinion unless you want to be a father

unless you want to have children there

is nothing a woman provides that you

can't get easier more reliably and with

less risk from a sex doll and escort a

dog and your friends okay what's that

yeah that's that's fair enough yeah cuz

if you're getting those needs met then

there's really no need to take on the

risk and well now wait a minute no I'll

disagree with that because there's

something to be said and again there's

something to be said about human

interaction right this is and again we

all know bitches ain't shit and men

don't need women okay yeah that's true

but women women are useless they're not

completely useless there are and again

I'm not I'm not gonna sit here I'm not

gonna sit here and say that I don't

think this is optimism I think this is I

think this is just being realistic

we can all sit here and say that women

are this and women are that but outside

of sex every once in a while you can't

find one or two that might be able to

offer you something outside of a few

moist holes to stick your dick in and I

think in a dark horror at a man's core

every you know man men and women we are

we are biologically hardwired to seek

out relationships with people of the

opposite sex so on and I don't I agree

with you but what are these things that

women offer that beyond the moist holes

yeah listen companionship right like

there's there again there's something to

be said about having a having a soft

place I guess to lay our head and I'm

not saying that women you know should be

there to support like a lot of guys say

well I need a woman who's gonna support

me and be my rock no women don't need to

be a rock women need to be your pillow

they need women again just being in the

company of a woman just having someone

there someone that you can count on at

least most of the time to me that's

worth it and and dude I lived in Vegas

for almost eight years and dude I ran

through all these bitches and this net

in the other and eventually I grew out

of that stage because I was ready for

something a little bit

now I never thought that I would ever

you know you know get this unicorn of a

woman and I'd trust me my girlfriend is

anything but a unicorn it took a lot of

work to get her to where she it to get

her to where she is now but the things

she offers me outside a sex made it

worth it for me to put in the work

that's where I stand so it's not it's

not it to me it's not a matter of just

you know hey you know I just want to

fuck women dude I've been there and I've

done that dude I'm almost 41 years old I

was ready for something just a little

bit more I wasn't naive I wasn't naive

enough to think that I would actually

get it but it would appear that I might

have something kind of like that if this

thing all goes to shit I wouldn't be

surprised I'm not gonna sit here and say

up fuck it she wasn't shit anyway no

there would be some pain because I am

emotionally invested but to me that's

worth the risk what she offers me now as

a man is more than what women I was just

fucking in the past offered me then been

on this that um yeah and I sound like

I'm picking on the make ties and I'm not

actually appreciate that the big toes

are out there and I get it man I I

understand that risk management risk

tolerance question but I wonder if their

argument would be to and and I'm turdy

you can answer this better than I can

but what they're with their argument to

that be that what the what you gain from

a woman that soft place to land that

benefit is counterbalanced by just the

fact that living with the opposite sex

is a pain in the ass sometimes so you

had some benefit and you also get some

pain and it sums to zero well I'm gonna

blow your mind

I'm gonna blow your fucking mind so I

agree with doniphon men do have a

biological need or like they want like

the touch of a woman feeling a woman

near you you know just having a woman

close to you being able to reach out and

just give a you know sometimes you need

a hug sometimes and not like a bro hug

you don't want to fucking you know that

the three Pat's and break you actually

want a nice lingering hug

no homo and you you need a woman for

that you need a woman a soft place to

place that was like a woman feels like a

woman sounds like a woman yeah right now

that's what I have celestina for you're

not you're not gonna believe me in fact

I didn't believe me when I got celestina

but I actually I give her hugs and

kisses I have her

laughs and I rub her back I cleaner I

take care of her and I actually I

scratched that that itch that biological

itch that men have to take to care for a

woman to feel companionship for a woman

and you get that it's scratch love

exists in your brain it's not some

magical force that it's not like the

force that binds us all together like

you know like Star Wars it's a chemical

in your brain which is part of the

reproductive instinct and you can

fulfill you can scratch that itch with a

sex doll you can have companionship from

a sex toy even though you're just

projecting onto it because this is a

physics news alert when you love a woman

you're actually projecting that on to

her because how many times how many guys

out there have loved a woman and it was

completely one-sided and you were being

used but at the time you felt love from

her that was just projection well you

can project that love onto an inanimate

object or a sex doll you can scratch

that itch for companionship without any

risk zero celestine --is loyalty is 100%

absolute she will not cheat on me she

will not divorce for a beat she will not

travel with a baby and she's a fucking

10 out of 10 so there's no downside yeah

I need a little listen again I've got me

I need a little bit more than that and

you know nothing ventured nothing gained

yeah celestina it comes with a very low

risk but she doesn't quite offer you or

she wouldn't quite she wouldn't offer me

what I need the Mulligan the more you

invest the more you're gonna get out but

guess what there's also inherent risk so

listen man if if if you're not will if

you're not willing to or if you don't

want to take the risk that comes with

actually having a relationship with a

living breathing woman that's fine but

just because I do doesn't make me

short-sighted or obtuse we're gonna

start taking life calls in a bit Donovan

can you post the number in the TFO I'm

gonna throw it over to I think Rolo he

wants to just real quick I was gonna say

I don't know how many of you guys have

seen this movie but it's called a

castaway and I had a yes Tom Hanks was

open yeah Wilson that's exactly what I

was going to talk

about is when when you are on a desert

island and you are by yourself and there

is no other human contact around there

you anthropomorphize things okay and

what I'm seeing

at least when it's out correct me if I'm

wrong but there is just what what TFM

was saying and there is a need for that

human contact there is a a more social

animals we want to talk to something and

if we don't have that communication if

we don't have that interaction we will

create it in our heads now when when Tom

Hanks is talking to Wilson the

volleyball and making him into a you

know face and putting hair on him and

all this other stuff and then

interacting with that ball at the you

know while he's trying to get off the

desert island it I think that's a real

interesting analogy but I also think

that it is sort of representative of a

psychosis citizens if you are that alone

if you are that cut off from human

contact your your next you know your

next a psychological move I guess is to

create that content you know you're

gonna like so you're gonna project that

on to something else now if you're if

you're with a sex doll is that really I

mean is that really that same human

contact are you getting that

conversation back are you dealing with

someone else or is it a psychosis that

is that is prompted by solid you know

solitude as prompted by being so alone

that you have to project it onto

something else that you have no other

choice or is it you're doing it because

it's a choice and at that I think that

kind of goes back to what we were

talking about the crisis of motive are

you doing it for yourself or are you

doing it because you have that need I

mean what we're just talking a little

while ago about how a lot of MIG tails

are saying that that um T FM's not a

real mig towel because he has a sex doll

I mean how alone you have to be before

you start projecting and

anthropomorphizing things I mean how

long before we all have a Wilson you

know and is that where is that where

we're headed no okay so I I call it the

3ds you need your dudes your dolls and

your dogs so if you want to talk to

want a friend if you want to Wilson

someone to talk to that's what if you

dudes for you talk to your dudes you

want to do fun so hey get let's hey

dudes let's go do something fun you go

out and do something fun you have good

times with your dudes but unless you're

homosexual that's kind of where the love

relationship engine you can't get that

affection that love that sex from your

dudes again unless you're a homosexual

no no hey you know this is you know I'm

very Pro LGBTQ but then if you want to

come home to someone who's gonna be

happy to see you and lay with you and if

out that you can get a dog and if you

want affection and sex and you want to

scratch that that itch for female

affection and sex and love you can get a

doll between those three things you can

basically get those itches scratched

it's not about our psychosis it's really

a matter of finding an alternative cuz

you take away the the stuff that you can

do with your friends and this the the

effects you can get from a dog you

really only the one thing a woman can

provide that a dog or your friends can't

provide is sex and affection so you can

get that with a dull so it's all about

instead of trying to get everything from

a woman you compartmentalize the

benefits of a woman and you try to find

alternatives to those benefits so you

got your dudes your dogs and your dolls

well yeah I'll just have one quick

little thing here before we go to the

break and I'll do it in MIG house

defense because like I said I get the

motivation and I think the one thing

that you can't get from there's a lot of

things I don't think you can get from a

dog like I'm gonna go home today to my

wife and daughter and my wife is hot and

my daughter's cute and I don't know what

they're doing today and they're I'm

gonna go home today and they're gonna be

doing something entertaining it's I

don't know what I'm walking into and

that's kind of a nice surprise

but in the MiG tower defense I think

there's something to be said to not

going home to a surprise because it's

not always pleasant alright looks like

we have some callers on the line Donovan

hopefully we don't have any audio issues

that's if if we do I would just have to

restart my computer I think I figured

that out let me bring the first caller

on first caller on looks like you looks

like it's a private number one one one

are you with us hello first caller are

you with us

I can kind of hear him yeah we can

Barrett we can barely hear you turned to

your mouth speak up a little bit yeah go

ahead and at the end of the day a little

bit just to make sure I'm understanding

you correctly I think what you're asking

the panel is what do we feel is the most

important trade

woman in other words I think what you're

telling what you're telling us is that

men would prefer the physical over the

emotional and you want to know why that

is am I miss reading you ER


yeah and soulmates are bullshit let's

just go ahead and get past that I think

I know what she's saying she's so she's

saying you know what you know what would

change or what is the qualities that

would make the relationship healthy

again honestly there's nothing wrong

with women I want to say I don't hate

women not only do not hate women I

wouldn't change anything about women

women work the way they are men work the

way they are monogamy even works when

it's allowed to the problem is feminism

has liberated because monogamy is a

two-way street men had certain rights

and responsibilities and women had

certain rights responsibilities feminism

liberated women from all their

responsibilities so all the

responsibilities on the man the woman

has no responsibility so I'll give you

the best example I could think of so a

man primarily marries a woman or gets in

a relationship with a woman for reliable

sex a woman primarily gets in a

relationship with a man for reliable

financial support if a man decides to

cut off his wife or girlfriend

financially she's gonna leave or she's

gonna cry abuse a man just can't

arbitrarily say I choose not to support

you anymore I'm gonna spend all my money

on hookers and blow their like that's

not an option that's a form of abuse or

at the very least you're gonna get

dumped on the spot a woman can does and

like she's perfectly within her rights

to cut off the man sexually forever just

like we're never having sex again and

then that's it end of story

and he has no recourse

so that the relationship when it's

allowed to work when it's balanced

between rights and responsibilities it

works the problem the problem is the

system the problem is feminism if you

got rid of feminism which I Colo Cleo

call taking women's rights away then the

system the the thing works now the

question is what do men gain from a

relationship of women well men are

hard-wired to find pleasure in actually

taking care of women it's the same birth

of children children are a huge

investment what do children give you

they shit their pants they make messes

they they talk back all the kinds of

shows they're expensive as hell so why

do people want kids it doesn't make

logical sense because there's your your

emotions your limbic system are tied to

your lizard brain which is there to

facilitate survival and reproduction we

find joy and fulfillment from children

so when we have children even though

there are a terrible trade-off when it

comes to time and resources we find

genuine joy and fulfillment from having

children and Men find genuine joy and

fulfillment from taking care of women

they don't have to provide more than

they do they just need to not be cuts

and they need to not live in a system

which rewards them from being cut so

women don't have to change anything they

don't we don't need to put them in a

magic machine that makes them more like

men I wouldn't want women to be more

like men I just need the laws to get the

hell out of my bedroom and stop fucking

me in the ass whenever I try to have a

relationship and but unfortunately for

women and I know there's like a lot of

reach there's always these articles like

where all the good men and I'm 40 and

men are intimidated by I mean

unfortunately that feminism did that and

and because women are the majority of

voters there's nothing men can do to fix

it so many of to choices well women are

never because of their their narcissism

and the women are never going to

actually admit they're wrong take

responsibility and rescind these laws

themselves it's never going to happen

so men have two choices we can take

women's rights away and fix the system

ourselves or we can just wait for nature

to take its course and for society to

collapse because of low fertility and

then we're all praying to Mecca or at

least those who survive well okay let's

throw that over to Sean because he wants

to feedback on that one too

yeah Souter I got a question on that and

I know there's no unified voice of the

Macao community but what most mgtow say

that the main reason for signing off

with writing off women is women

themselves or is it predominantly the

system that were in I would say probably

80% of mctarry what are called reluctant

Ming Tao they're basically McTell

because the system is dogshit now yeah

women cheat women lie women use men for

money and all that stuff different men

may have different tolerance levels for

dealing with female bullshit but we're

really causes like men you think about

the male sex drive is so much more

powerful than the female sex drive think

about what it takes for a man to

basically walk away and deny his own sex

drive or seek it in something like a sex

doll rather than a woman when women I

mean women have never been more

promiscuous I don't maybe since the days

of Caligula so I mean the sex that the

pussy's out there but when it's it's

such a shitty deal when you have to

worry about being falsely accused of

rape 20 years later you know it's just

not worth it but I I say I would say

most McTell and most Mattel are not like

in cells or anything they they've had

pussy it's just the system is such dog

shit and they've been burned so many

times and the problem is when does when

the rules are so slanted when and every

time men try to protect like a Ian gamma

she the guy from Canada they're these

women who conspired to ruin his life

and they there was emails that were

discovered with the exposing the

conspiracy it was brought out in court

that these women conspired lied to ruin

this man's life and feminism's answer

was to shore up the law to make sure

that further men who were falsely

accused couldn't do that so every time a

man successfully repels a feminist

witch-hunt feminists demand the

government changed the law to make it

harder for further man so the government

is fully in the pocket of feminists it's

just a basically it's a matter of when

will you reach every man has a line even

you Donovan you have a line there is a

line where the laws will get so shitty

even you will walk away from women

you just haven't reached that line yet

but this crazy train has

no brakes you will reach that line or

men will take women's rights away one of

them is going to happen sooner or later

I agree with you fortunately for me I'll

probably be six feet under by the by the

time that happens let's go to the next

caller here area code two one six you

are on live with the Redman group with

special guests heard flanking monkey

turd flinging monkey talk to us area

code two one six you're on the air

all right area code two 1/6 is gone area

code 571 you were on the air with the

Redman group oh hi guys yes so he wants

advice for shy guys obviously you have a

very and thanks for the call area code

five seven one yeah very low voice

alright advice for shy guys so you want

to watch out for the giant turnips that

Mario throws at you that's the really

the most important thing other than that

like basically any sort of social

anxiety the best remedy is immersion

therapy so there are there like groups

there's like there's like a public

speaking Club where people basically

give speeches in front of each other and

all of them are shy so they basically

get up and give speeches to hit the get

over their fear of public speaking so if

you're shy you want to try try basically

being open in a trusted circle until

that becomes easier and for example just

give personal example when if you look

at my old videos from 2015 I would I was

actually nervous when I first started

making content so you can actually hear

me swallowing and between sentences I

would hold my breath so I'd be holding

my breath I talked for a few senses and

then I breathed and it was you is

because I was nervous because it was

brand new to making content now that

I've been doing it since 2015 I'm not

nervous anymore so the best way to get

over shyness is to just do something now

if you're shy around women or something

like that you kind of want to you want

to build up to that but then you also

need to be realistic about again what

women are

worth and what women have to offer and

realize you know half the population or

women so if this woman says no it's not

like oh god I'm gonna cut my wrists you

just like move on there's like literally

hundreds of millions of other women out

there there's no reason to get bent out

of shape about it but just you know if

you don't like something about yourself

start making a plan to improve it and

you don't have to do it all at once just

try to make like a small game plan make

incremental improvements that are

measurable and then in time you'll be in

a different place and you'll be happier

with yourself yep okay area code area

code nine one seven you are on the air

with the red mangrove talk to us hello

yes yeah this is um this is Reyes reborn

I uh I've been following you guys group

since you know from the jump and my

question pertains to the sex dollars

what do you think a woman's um it's

gonna happen when women interact with

men when these sex dolls get more

sophisticated because I'm seeing what's

happening now like society's like taking

cuts from Blade Runner

20:49 well you have like these virtual

girly like girlfriends like these joys

shows like what's world everything you

want to see everything you want to hear

and I just want I just want to know

what's gonna it was Connect how the how

this could affect women as sex dolls get

more sophisticated good question thanks

for the call nine one seven CFM what you

got well women are losing their goddamn

mind already and we barely have first

generation the first generation sex

robots are effectively animatronic heads

on doll bodies once the dolls actually

start moving around and stuff like that

women are fucked and here's the thing

they have male sex dolls or male sex

robots when women don't care and the

reason why is a man's a man has three

primary functions his first primary

function is a provider secondary as a

protector and only third tertiary as a

lover a woman's primary function is sex

so a man is not this is the reason why

women can have a drawer full of dildos

and vibrators and men don't care

because even if a woman pleasures

herself to toys that doesn't threaten

the man because that's her

that's his tertiary function as long as

he's fulfilling his secondary and

primary function he's safe when a

woman's primary function is threatened

which is her sexual function by a dollar

robot she has nothing else so women are

trying to ban dolls they're everywhere

like the bands are coming they've

already successfully banned childlike

sex dolls but because there's no

self-regulation there's no clear what is

and what is in a childlike sex doll so

for example Amazon or the UK they've

just banned all sex dolls because they

don't want the liability so that if

there's no self-regulation in the sex

doll sex robot industry they're just

gonna ban everything they just like to

do with violent video games this is why

the ESRB was created so I I've called

for self-regulation to try to stave off

the bans but yeah they're trying they're

absolutely trying and it's not coming

from the left it's not coming from

feminists it's coming from the trad cons

on the right they're the ones trying to

ban everything I would say this I think

that I think that sex dolls in the

not-too-distant future are going to be

art they're going to be very

sophisticated and I'll tell you this I

think that sex dolls will have the same

effect on the sexual marketplace as

legalizing prostitution would because

the more the more easy free pussy there

there is out there with we're not free

but but the less a man has to pay with

regards to his emotion and its time

etcetera if you can just go out and pay

for pussy than that that appreciates the

values of women's vaginas this is why

women primarily don't want to legalize

prostitution because they know that it

decreases their value and oh holy shit

now they got to learn to do that now

they have to learn to do other things

other than suck and fuck and a lot of

women say oh yeah well you're you know

you've got your sex all well does she

cook clean and love you well bitch you

don't do that anyway

basically so so and again I'm not

advocating for sex dolls I you know but

I'm but I'm saying that I understand

dude I had this conversation with my

girlfriend when this first came out I

was trying to let her know listen I'm

not a sex doll guy and I never will be

but I'm not saying I don't understand

yeah I was gonna say is that this kind

of springboards onto the first caller as

well as I think that right now you're

seeing women who are who want to say

well sex dolls dehumanize women and

general like is it clear you're with if

you want to stack by prayers and dildos

dehumanized man really care about that

they say that ruse to cover up the fact

that holy shit I actually have to be a

woman now exactly I was also gonna say

the first caller was saying you know our

our women just a means to an end are

they just a wet hole to put your dick in

right I mean is that all it is or is

there more to man I I get into this

conversation quite a bit with especially

with quote-unquote red pill women where

it's like they are they're asking me you

know is there anything more as you know

how come you guys just see us as sexual

objects you know even more so today I

mean I think naturally our brains what

you know I've said this a million times

how men this when you see a beautiful

woman it triggers the same part of a

man's brain as tool use so yes we're

objectifying women already but now we

are literally making an object out of

woman and why is that it's because we

you know that's it's it's a means to an

end so I think women think that it's

dehumanizing because they think there

should be something more there should be

an emotional connection there should be

some sort of personal human interaction

and it goes back to them always saying

uh you know you can well your

commodifying sex it's like no men are

not commodifying sex women are

commodifying sex and men are just

responding to that market and that

commodification when women have some

sort of value added to them beyond your

sexual then we can written then we can

respond to that value added

but until we see that until there's

something else we're gonna we're gonna

improve sex dolls until we can and

listen sexual exactly first I've got a

comment on but I just think about as

role I was talking because there was a

movie that Jack milk Jack Nicholson if

he says something to the effect of you

know how would you describe a woman he's

like you know I take a man and that I

just remove accountability and


well it's good as against with Helen

Hunt right right okay so isn't that the

big risk with sex robots is it it really

threatens women's need to be accountable

you know on sexual marketplace because I

mean picture a day where you have an app

on your phone and a sex robot in your

closet and it knows when you come home

and it greets you at the door makes you


cleans up the dishes blows you

sleep goes back in the closet and

charges and does it nag you right like

that's that's that's a pretty appealing

you know day for many men especially

that make tau guys out there good yeah I

thought I think that I'm the sex dolls

are a huge threat to certain group of

women but they're also a huge

opportunity to a certain group of women

because a sexual marketplace does follow

economic principles and so you're gonna

have women who are threatened by sex

dolls but you're also gonna have women

and I see them now on on Twitter and

Facebook women who market themselves as

traditional women and say Han I'm not

the you know I I'm an up for a

traditional relationship I want a red

pill guy I'm a red tailed woman and I

don't know how repla they can be but the

point is they're gonna you're gonna see

an increasing number of women who market

themselves as that traditional woman who

who wants to serve that traditional role

we got haricots two and four in the line

real quick what Rolla said about

emotional connection women say well you

should look for the emotional connection

they were using that as an excuse not to

get into shape if I don't want to fuck

you then there's not going to be any

emotional connection or love on the male

and that's just all there is to it

area codes haricots to 140 you're on

live with the Redman group with special

guest turd flinging monkey what you got

hey guys thank you for everything thank

you I think it's so good and to come

together and talk about these things

especially swinging monkey and rule

you'd really help me take women out for

pussy pedestals for sure my questions I

think they're twofold one would you

suggest the men to just become hopeless

when they read stuff on the manosphere

about you know men and women the way

they relate to each other now maybe the

second question the answer is the first

one-third swinging monthly has already

done a video on this at least one can

you talk more about how is a

self-correcting problem okay I think

there is a word up good

okay sorry everyone was muted okay so if

feminism is a self-correcting problem

because feminism is

it doesn't it works contrary to natural

principles and a society which embraces

felt for two reasons one feminism

destroys fertility in feminists will

admit this that they talked about how

feminism was going to solve the

overpopulation problem because women who

go to school and have careers have fewer

kids and now that the West is dying and

being replaced by Islam now they're like

oh well it's patriarchy's fault that's

why the we need to give women more free

money and welfare so no it's it's

empowering women destroys your fertility

rate it's now there is not a Western

country on this planet that has a

fertility rate Above Replacement which

isn't simply importing people from the

third world and what's funny is the

people are importing are basically

patriarchal societies and cultures and

the reason why they have the excess

people to export is because their

patriarchal patriarchy leads to

increased fertility feminism destroys

fertility that's the number one reason

why feminism self-correcting problem the

second reason is when feminists or when

women you know get their rights and they

start voting they they blow up the

welfare state and I don't mean

destructively I mean they make it so

much bigger so much more expansive all

they want is more free shit and because

that's their biological imperative women

seek out men to provide resources so

once you give them the vote what are

they gonna do they're gonna vote for

mens resources be given to them by a

government so you have an expensive

welfare state which is paid for by male

taxpayers so basically they've cut out

the middleman and they're using or that

they've added a middleman they've added

the government to basically provide for

them like a man and they're still using

men they're not like strong independent

women that don't need no man they're

just using government to get men's

resources however a welfare state is a

Ponzi scheme you need more taxpayers

than people who are receiving taxpayer

benefits and when you have a crashing

fertility rate and if welfare state you

basically are going to have economic

collapse or you're going to have to

import patriarchal cultures which are

going to replace feminism anyway so

feminism is it cannot exist longer than

a century or two because it's completely

against nature its unsustainable so

that's that's how feminism is a

self-correcting problem now your first

question about how you know you get you

know you need

what to do right so you have to realize

women are not the end-all be-all of your

purpose for living I understand from a

lizard brain perspective life exists to

survive and reproduce so if you're not

reproducing you know you're not

fulfilling your biological imperative

well you have Maslow's hierarchy of

needs and what I would do is I was

advise you to look for a way to self

actualize to find meaning and purpose in

your life beyond getting your dick wet

and I did a whole series called the zen

of zero fucks given and there's the red

pill grief cycle and you could check

those out where I go into you know

finding a new meaning and purpose the

problem is society tells men your

meaning and purpose is to be a husband

and a father and to you know be this

good man and when you realize how shitty

the deal is and you decide to take the

big step and walk away from it all then

you have to ask yourself what am I gonna

do now like my whole life I've been told

this is my meaning and purpose what am I

going to do with my life so that's

something unfortunately I can't tell you

the answer for that because it's gonna

be different so you have to kind of go

on a walkabout and find your own meaning

and purpose for yourself again I'm kind

of amazed you haven't read my stuff

because pretty much that's what I go

into and I will talk about the stages of

grief for like stages of unplugging from

your old blue pill conditioning the

other thing I was gonna say is for this

caller I I get this a lot and in the

second my second book I wrote a chapter

in there called a new hope and I think

that what happens is guys get nihilistic

and they get hopeless because they don't

know what to do with themselves and they

don't know you know now that they've

they've had their you know their minds

awakened or their their you know they

understand how intersexual dynamics work

and they you know come into a red pill

paradigm and they still kind of cling to

those blue pill you know those blue pill

ideas the things that they wanted to

they were hoping was gonna work they

were hoping that it was going to be

Disney dreams are going to come true

right and so they built their whole

lives around that trying to satisfy that

and then so what happens is they get

nihilistic and they they can't cross the

abyss is what I call it and they can't

get into a new red pill paradigm and

understand that that red pill paradigm

is a whole lot more hopeful and a whole

lot more has a whole

more prospects to it then your old blue

pill paradigm because you were living in

la-la land I mean you were living in a

lie at that time and so it's really just

coming over into that new into that new

understanding go ahead go ahead done it

you know toss it back into the calls in

just a moment I just want to read out a

comment here he said TFM is dropping

many truth bombs in this war zone and

guys I don't see this as a war so much

see this is men collaborating on ideas I

mean we agree on a lot here right now we

don't have a lot of differences of

opinion you know be honest with you put

Donovan you know happenin next oh yeah

area code seven one four you're on live

with the Redman group okay first of all

Rolo your book sucks and saved my life

so thank you and Richard is the reason

why I found your book so thanks for

having me on that night well thanks for

that I bought about five copies of your

book and I've given it out to you know

my own and what do you want one uh one

out of five really actually grass the

grass the condiment you know and I know

I saw something Richard said like a

while ago on one of his videos and he's

like if someone's not read till door

ready to get read feels like no don't

force it on them but I feel like I want

to I don't want to like nail it a little

more because I don't think they even

like picked it up and I see them to

seeing week in life and it's it hurts me

because I've known these people my whole

life they're good people and I don't

know what else to say should I really

just give up or oh you know jump in

there because I've talked about this

before it I've had private conversations

and life q and A's with my patrons and

it's like people are usually brought to

the red pill or even roll those bloggers

work through some function of trauma

like that's what brought me to it so she

just does not work at any life and you

go looking for answers because you want

to be accountable to yourself so you go

do that that's that's really my take on

it and

and if thought the litmus test has

passed then he's open to taking the

information but roll over here for you

on that - I was gonna say is it

I always tell guys this is said that you

know unplugging guys from the matrix is

like triage I mean you have to unplug

the guys that you can and then read last

rites to the dying because you're not

going to save everyone you can't save

them all okay and I know that that's

frustrating because I got guys say how

was its my brother or what's my son or

it's somebody that I really really care

about and they have grown up and been

conditioned in this blue pill you know

gynocentric for lack of a better word

well I call a feminine primary social

order which is basically kind of

essentialism but they grow up in this

idea in this conditioning that starts

very very early in life like you know

five years old and then they get wrapped

up in this and I think again you build

their lives of around it they build a

marriage around it they build their

careers around it and satisfying this

this idea that they're not men unless

they do they follow the blue pill path

which is really which is really just the

carrot that's you know for the donkey to

pull and I think in that way I think

McCowan R and n TR P is very very

similar I think the only the only point

of contention between you know make ty

OS tell guys I see you know if you are

if you have taken the red pill if you

have become red pill aware if you

understand intersectional dynamics if

you have listened to any of the stuff

that we've been talking about or you can

you know read my book whatever you

cannot help but live your life in a

different way even if you resist it even

if you're like no I don't believe it I

don't tell me I'm not gonna do anything

I'm gonna stick my head in the sand

you're gonna see that shit in the real

world around you and you're not gonna

have any choice but to acknowledge that

what the red pill is making you aware of

is actually true and how you choose to

deal with that is kind of up to you and

I think a lot of guys just denial about

it they just like like frustration that

the callers saying right here it's like

I wish I could save these guys I wish I

could help these guys well yeah I do too

and that's why I wrote books about this

and so I've been doing what I'm doing

for so long but understand that you're

not gonna save them all and as much as

you'd like to I think the best thing

that you can do to help guys is to just

point out stuff when you see it

and when they get into these situations

with with with a woman or whatever point

that out again the I think that the the

only real difference between MIG tau and

T RP is I think that CRP says look

you're you know just because you want to

learn about you know inter sexual

dynamics just because you want to learn

how you can be more attractive to women

just because so you can learn that

doesn't necessarily mean that you have

to do that in such a way that it

compromises you as the primary person I

mean I'm always I'm always talking about

mental point of origin I'm always

talking about frame and how important

all that is I'm always saying that you

know when it should only be a compliment

to a man's life and never the focus of

it all this stuff it seems like it's

very self centered self selfish whatever

it's no it's it's a pragmatic way of

living for for guys and I think the oh

the main point of contention that that

migt aus have with TRP is that they

think I think they tend to see it as

more like pickup artistry well you're

learning about this just so you can get

you can get laid and so you can be a

better slave it starts like that but

sometimes it starts like that buts often

you know especially right now and then

I've seen the red pill sort of evolved

from what it was back and you know the

early 2000s into what it is it wasn't

called the red pill back line but I seen

it evolve into something where it yeah

sure maybe it back in the day it was all

about game I think that game is very

important for guys to understand but as

a practice of red pill theory I always

say game informs red pill red pill

informs game and people always ask me

and I'm just put throw this out there to

the panel here is that they always say

well you know how can you have a twenty

two year marriage I'm a great marriage

with my wife

I still have great sex I have a daughter

I have a pretty much an ideal

relationship do I know that she could go

feral at any moment yes of course I do

know do I know that I'm in a danger and

if you know that I could be bent over

the barrel and be paying alimony for the

rest of my life yes I do

but I have internalized red pill

awareness and understanding to know what

I'm getting into and people say well

you're gaming your wife all the time

like no I'm not giving my out the time

because I have the red pill awareness as

part of my personality I've internalized

who you are it's part of who I am that's

why I'm writing the books and doing the

things that I do

I know that Mick tells will say well you

know you're just setting yourself up for

failure ultimate failure well I'm spent

22 years and could it happen sure it

could happen but you fight for what and

I think that really what it comes down

to is do you want to do you want to

focus on your on yourself do you want to

be you know a complete you know

completely self focused or do you want

to take that like I've always said this

is I'm damn near every one of these as

I'm a proponent of enlightened

self-interest and what that means is I

can't help anyone until I can help

myself first

so I become my own first thought and

then I decide who I think is worth

helping and who I think would would you

know would benefit from what I'm doing I

don't I don't write books because it's

like oh it's all about me I want to help

people I want to keep I want to keep

guys next out of the fucking noose is

what I want it is what I want to do and

so do I owe them that am i less of a

person for doing that no I don't think


yeah I got a thought on the the caller's

question when you're talking to somebody

when you see somebody you care about and

you see them walking into that trap you

know people are invested in what they

believe and that's why the information

will just bounce off of their head

because they have an investment that

you're not seeing and they have

incentives that you're not seeing and so

sometimes the more you try to persuade

somebody to watch their step the more

they become invested in the the path

they're traveling down but one thing

that people will always listen to people

will always listen to stories so this

uncle this cousin this brother that

you're concerned about you can approach

them and say hey look let me talk about

what happened to me let me tell you

about this woman who trashed my hopes

and dreams for a minute and then I came

across this information maybe you're

interested in maybe not but it kind of

changed me and so tell about her story

and people will listen

alright let's hop into the next caller

if we can because I know we got a few

area code eight one three you're on live

at the Redman group how you doing what's

up brother yeah now watching or

listening you guys pretty much all you

guys for a while married ten years and


legal system so I just wanted to let

everybody know that you know one thing

Islam dealing with now is what's called

a false allegation and basically was

told that dropping my children off and

handing my ex-wife a legal document to

appear in court because she wasn't

giving my children on the schedule is

now called harassment so those are just

some of the cuts one of the Hawaiian

items and then the other line item was

took my daughter to a doctor's office

said that she wasn't able to eat about

94% of the food because the food

allergies threw that into the document

and now is dragging me through the court

system something to take my children

away and document enough the judges you

know probably on the third wave of

feminism here plus the attorneys they're

all working together it's it's just

shocking to sit there and see this

happening and knowing full well a bunch

of bullshit so you know one of the

things I'm dealing with and appreciate

you know you guys going on and talking

that they're listening to you guys for a

while so you know it just kind of helped

me get through some of this stuff good

man we appreciate the call and yeah

listen he makes he makes he makes very

he makes very good points he's talking

exactly what turn flicking third

flinging monkey is talking about and

I'll just um how did that before we pass

it off to Sean cuz he's the guy that

wrote the book on this I've been through

the divorce machine I I spent a good

year-and-a-half through many years after

that kind of like cleaning up fucking

fall out and it's just reality at all

that you live in I mean if you're going

to get marry it is high risk and low

reward for men

should it end it's even high risk and

low reward for men should it continue I

mean there's still there's a lot of you

know risks that are associated with

living with women on long-term basis

marriage cohabitating whatever it is

each used to do you've got to have solid

game you got to be red pill aware you've

got to be top-shelf you always got to be

chasing excellence but some I want to

pass it off to Sean because you kind of

wrote the book on the process of vetting

women for marriage and I know you got

some thoughts and comments in those

businesses like your entire practice

right well this guy sounds like he's on

the back end of it where he's he's

getting put through the wringer is that

correct yeah yeah so I mean my thoughts

on that or just follow the basic

principles and get people around you get

a good team around you get friends get

professionals document everything and

know that this is gonna pass because I

see people going through that I see guys

going through this process and this can

go on for months and they can really

mess with your sense of reality and

that's why it's important to have those

anchors around you that can keep you

grounded to reality and remind you that

that you will get through this all right

can I speak on this for a minute you

know all right so call her I don't know

if you're aware I actually have a

podcast tonight at 7:00 p.m. Pacific

Standard Time my co-host is Dee Dee Jay

he's a paralegal in family law for 10

plus years he wrote a book called the

feminist lie and he knows his shit when

it comes to family law especially if you

live in like kind of the the west or

west coast area so go ahead and just you

know check me out on Twitch watch the

podcast I'll ask tdj about it or you can

call in or something like that but he

actually he's been through this he's

been through two divorces and he got

custody of his kids both times so it's

it's not entirely impossible to do well

post divorce even though nearly every

single law is written up against men I

mean one of the things that I always do

in my channel I mean I've got a video

that I wrote I think it's called the

truth about divorce so you should go

check it out it's a longer one that gets

them some really cold hard truth bombs

that guys need to get their head around

I think every guy should watch it if

they are engaged or thinking about

getting married because you need to

understand what you're walking into the

risks that are associated with

you definitely want to get into it with

your eyes wide wide open

not to say you can't be successful we've

got two great men on this panel we got

roll over and Shawn that are in long

marriages that you know so far as I can

tell they're doing great right so you

know there's always some good outcomes

but if it goes bad it can go really

really bad and you just have to

understand I mean if you're willing to

take that risk walk into it with your

eyes wide open right let's sound move on

into the total all right area code four

come on come on come on area code four

zero eight you're on live with the red

man bird what you got yeah good morning

remnant group my name is Armando calling

from the Bay Area I've called here

before many times it just wanted to say

thanks for flying - monkey coming in the

Redman group as a red man or red pill

aware man I've definitely have gained a

lot of insight from mpow perspective in

the past that I lost audio muted

yourself might be enjoy skate there you

go alone nope you got it no you're right

good good can you hear me

yeah oh okay yeah so I just wanted to

say from as a red fella we're man I've

definitely have gained a lot of insight

from então perspective flying toward

monkeys perspective that is and I'm glad

you're on the Redman group because I

just I stick with royal and royal only

and as a red fella folk breath oh man I

just don't really get a chance to hear

other you know people's perspectives so

I definitely know learn a lot from em

pal but you talked a little this

questions for flying turtle monkey you

talked a little bit about earlier about

how we all sort of reached a fine line

and how we all have those limits and

yeah royal talks about this and he wrote

an article called zero doubt every man

gets zeroed out eventually even if

you're not married right it could be a

single man and still be zeroed out but

that's that's where that fine line comes

in and so does that mean that we give up

I mean does that mean that that that's

it we just exit out the game because we

do have something that's called the

burden of performance and as a man there

you go

we always have to perform when we must

perform so that's that's work that's

again Ryan

I'm not attacking you you said yeah

doctor definitely gave me a lot of

insight but we have we have a burnin up

performance we have to fulfill we can

find ways on the red pill platform that

maybe we not we can't change the laws I

get that

we can't but we could try to use that to

our advantage individually and and and

make something about it so I just want

to pick your brain get your thoughts on

that and again I appreciate everything

you said I gained a lot about então but

I just wanted to get my two cents there

yeah thanks for the call go ahead well

you've been upgraded to flying turd I

know I got wings and everything all

kinds of we've evolved like Pokemon

anyway so so I get I get this a lot I

hear this a lot from people talking

about all migt our quitters McTell we're

giving up it's really a question of I

know it sounds cliche but it the juice

isn't worth the squeeze I use the

example of the business contract where a

business partners like okay I want you

to put up 90 percent of the equity I'll

put in 10 but then if we split them if

the business if I quit I get half the

business you have to pay my salary for

life I get to keep all the intellectual

property and you get nothing no one

would enter that contract now if someone

take the gun of centrism take the male

female out of it because I think a lot

of times people have a gynocentric blind

spot and they want to think that like

these relations between men and women

are somehow exempt from common sense

so again business if a business partner

says you're gonna put up 90 percent but

I get half and I get the intellectual

property and you have to pay my salary

for life you tell them to go fuck

themselves cuz that's a shitty fucking

deal doesn't matter if you were friends

for life if he comes from a good family

he's a Christian he goes to church every


it doesn't matter that's a shitty

fucking deal you wouldn't take it if you

did take it you're an idiot

now that doesn't mean you're quitting it

means the deal is shit so one of two

things are gonna happen either men need

to stop simple stop being blue pill kuck

and actually like hold out for a better

deal or we need to wait nature take its


and for the system's naturally purge

itself and then

the deal will reset because feminism is

a self-correcting problem so the women

aren't the problem the system is the

problem so women don't have to change

it's not like we're quitting on women

it's the system's dogshit just like you

know I could be if I don't take that

deal with this business partner who

wants to fuck me

doesn't mean I'm anti business or I'm

quitting on business it means that the

contract is dogshit so we either make a

better contract or I'm gonna go out I'm

gonna go my own way and I'm gonna for my

business by myself now unfortunately

marriage in the government they don't

allow people to form private contracts

you have to assume they're one size fits

all system so unfortunately because of

the government again it's not women it's

the it's the system there's no

alternative other than going your own

way that makes sense if you want to

think that's quitting it's not it's

basically you're holding out it's part

of negotiations you don't just take the

deal that's been offered to you if it's

dog shit you hold out and wait for a

better deal and maybe that means not

taking a deal at all but that's part of

the thing like as long as men are

willing to take the shitty deal because

you know pussy feels so good and oh I

need a woman the deal is only going to

get worse because this crazy train has

no brakes

but if men and I know this is never

gonna happen

but if men just stopped worshipping

women stopped you know thinking pussy is

the end-all be-all of life and held out

for a better deal it would be we met

because this is the big key women need

men more than men need women yes you

better believe it

so if man just stop being simps better

deals would be forthcoming but as long

as men are like oh I'm no quitter I'll

take that shitty deal oh I'm getting

fucked in the essence of warts Court how

did this happen and it happened because

you took the first fucking deal that a

woman offered you because you think

pussy is the end-all deal of your life

all right let me just uh hop in there's

an overall all has something to add to

it so I'm an entrepreneur anybody that's

watching my channel for a while knows

that I've done big deals very big deals

and I know how to negotiated you and I

also know how to negotiate the sexual

marketplace a hell of a lot better than

I did a few years ago and I learned

those skills by being accountable and

taking ownership for my life and taking

the rest of the risks are there

there's no question you know question

the risks are there the risks are there

and business transactions all the time

but I don't know maybe that's me maybe

I'm just a risk taker

maybe guys that are like TFM are apt to

take those risks and navigate it

accordingly and deal with the outcome

should it come I mean yeah the loss suck

I mean there's no question there's some

shitty women out there there's no

question that's very very bad women out

there and really bad shit can happen to

guys I mean those guys would get thrown

in jail for not paying alimony in a

court system but and they don't even see

their kids it's just ridiculous it's

utterly insane

but there's risks associated with

everything in life and I guess that's

just me I mean I don't have a question

it's kind of wanted to counter that from

a different perspective from my view

because again I don't I don't disagree

with a lot of what TFM says the

difference between me and hem I think is

I just don't want to have sex with a

doll right all I want to pass it off to

you all right well I was and I'm glad we

got to this because I really wanted to

dive into this question here I kind of

hit on it a little bit earlier while I'm

saying you know is it is it the system

that's broke or is it just the is it

just that guys are gonna keep doing what

guys are gonna do I think it's maybe a

little bit overly optimistic to think

that the feminism is gonna reset itself

I mean at some point it's gonna get so

bad I mean we're already seeing it I

mean statistically right now we're

watching the you know birth age drop or

what or you know great and first first

pregnancy I guess and then we're also

seeing you know marriage rates fall

we're also seeing the age of marriage is

get older and older and older so I'm

always hearing about the the marriage

boycott I don't really think that

there's even a boycott right now I think

it's just the market correcting itself

because guys are they see exactly what

what tortolini monkey sees I mean it's

these guys who are seeing it as a bad

deal and they don't want to have any any

part of it so the thing is is how many

of these guys are reacting to that

because they see it it's a bad deal or

because they're just simply not

competitive I think that one of my my

point of contention with with MIG tau is

that it seems like a lot of guys in MIG


go make tau because they're making their

necessity of virtue so it's like I don't

want to have anything to do with whim

but you know were they successful with

women before and then they decided to

get out of it I would say I mean and I

don't have the statistics to back this

up but I would I would think that guys

who get into a really bad situation

where a bad divorce or they get into a

really traumatic situation with a BPD

woman or they get it to a you know some

really bad situation with a woman and

then they use that trauma to convince

themselves that they are doing something

different like they're gonna they're

gonna go red pill I don't want to just

point at MIG tails but they're gonna go

red pill they're gonna go MIG tau but

were they really competitive in the

first place the caller was saying was

that you know he's quoting from one of

my chapters which is Burton a

performance and men have a burden of

performance no matter what it is it

doesn't necessarily have to be with

women it's it's you are always going to

be judged socially by external forces

it's always going to be your your job or

it's going to be your your peers it

could be women you're always going to

have that burden of performance to

perform better as a man how you decide

to you know internalize that or how you

decide to put value on that is really up

to you and I know that it's a big thing

and makes our they say well you know I

don't I don't make women my metric of

deciding you know how good I am as a

person or I don't base my self

understanding on you know the approval

of women great that's fine

but again it's how much of that is

really guys who just simply couldn't get

laid guys who are still in cells right

now I mean really what's it what's the

dividing line between an in cell and MiG

towel right now is it such a really good

question roll and I just want to

interrupt you for just one second

because a guy said you're in the

comments this guy's placing the blame on

men that's a comment that comes up quite

a lot when you're talking about the

stomach bug you just kind of hit on that

for a bit well I don't think it's

necessary paste on the bait the blame on

men it's just that men are reacting to a

to a situation the men are adaptive okay

we're problem solvers we're deductive

problem solvers even when there is no

problem we're trying to solve the dam

problem because we feel like we have to

have some sort of utility that's one of

the reasons why we have to protect where

we feel like naturally drawn to protect

women we feel naturally drawn to provide

for women is that is that placing the

blame on men no I understand the need

for personal responsibility I get that

but I'm not one of these guys who's

gonna say it's all about personal

responsibility I know that there are

shitty situations I think that a lot of

the this power of positive thinking

mantra that gets passed around

particularly in pickup artists a lot of

you know the Tony Robbins kind of gurus

and stuff like that where they always

want to say it's it's your

responsibility and your life's talked up

it's all because of you well that might

be so but how much of a percentage of

that is you and how much of the

percentage of that is just a really

shitty responsible really really shitty

situation that you find yourself in so

yes in some ways you're going to have to

perform in no matter what your I know

what what you what venue or what theater

you happen to be in your 1/2 performant

people are going to judge you based on

the performance again what is the

difference between an insult and a big

towel and what is the difference between

the guy who could get laid and was

getting laid and decided to go big towel

and then the guy who couldn't get laid

and decided to go big towel yeah are

those like like Donovan was saying you

know those are the low-order big towels

as opposed to the higher order big

Towson I've listened to a lot of them I

have listened to start us and listen to

Barbara I've listened to all these guys

I and some make more sense than others

and I've always told guys I said you

know there's sort of a spectrum there's

those guys who are really just sort of

team mgtow and like Nick town and just

want to go crazy and then those are guys

who that's why I wanted to bring a TFM

on here because when I saw his video

about explaining migt out I put it up in

the in the chat but that was what made

me want to get him on on the on the show

because it was a very thought out very

red pill perspective of McTell but I

still think that there are some issues

here where it's not sort of banging men

but could

get laid in the beginning could they do

it and then they decided not to because

it's one thing to have the skills and go

you know what I I could do this but I'm

choosing not to or it's another one who

just makes his his necessity of virtue

and say well I never had to do it

anyways because I could never get laid

let's start off - I thought if you

wanted to top up on it yeah just real

quick um again this comes back to you

know listen there is a price to be paid

for everything I think a lot of guys

they want these young on submissive

girls who can cook and suck and fuck but

here's the problem they want all of this

stuff it would appear that they want

this to be easy god forbid god forbid

you have to endure the masculine burden

of performance just like Rollo said

competition and again there are a lot of

guys out there and I'm not seeing this

that this is eutteum but there are a lot

of guys out there who identified

themselves as MIG tau who give off the

air the air up you know what I could get

laid if I wanted to but I don't want to

right so in other words they would have

us believe that they've gone full monk

mode out of out of choice rather than

you know necessity like they have to do

this here's one more thing to me there's

nothing to me there's nothing

fundamentally wrong with hypergamy

competition and I think that men who

blame things on hypergamy they believe

in the notion of unconditional love

weightless and we all know that women

love what you are not who you are but

men don't want to embrace a lot of men

don't want to embrace the masculine

burden of performance they want to be

able to be your best option for a month

lock her down then completely slack off

get fat etc etc then when his girlfriend

cheats on her with a higher value guy he

wants to scream hypergamy hypergamy

calls her a cheat but the guy she

cheated with is the guy you used to be

you don't get residual benefits from

women any more than they get it for men

that that's just how it is

so again if you chew if you choose to

check out that's fine but just like Rolo

said is it it was this a choice or was

this a necessity all right do we have

any more collars online zone yeah we

absolutely do everything you only

respond to that or we just yeah go ahead

go ahead on the line but today we're

gonna let DFM come in here okay so yeah

there's a lot lot to I wanted to address

I almost wish I took notes so yes

dominance and men plus I pergamene women

equal evolution men compete women reward

the competition

with reproduction that's how humans

became the apex predator and dominated

the planet if we all like if women had

this like altruistic okay I'll give that

guy a pity fuck then you know humans

would still be walking on four legs

eating bananas instead of you know

living in apartments doing podcasts on

YouTube so that's that's one there's

nothing wrong with hypergamy and there

is nothing wrong with dominance it's

part of male nature now people who can't

compete obviously complain that's why we

have communism because people can't

compete in a free market so they want to

change the rules so they can get the the

the fruits of labor redistributed to

them Yeah right so yeah I get that if

you're a loser you want basically the

winners to share because you can't

compete against them directly now I want

to make one point about this whole

concept of oh you know you got to take

the risk you got to take the risk so the

thing about business law cuz you know I

use a lot of business analogies business

law is fair you know you have the four

corners of the contract the judge

enforces the contract and if there's an

unconscionable contract it's thrown out

if business ran like the Family Court

our economy would collapse we wouldn't

be able to have an industry because the

family court is so fucking bullshit so

the problem isn't you know yeah when

you're a business owner when you're

making deals and you're killing it

you're making millions of dollars you

can trust that the law is actually there

to enforce a fair equal playing field

for business owners so you can't you

don't get screwed over nor can you screw

over others the Family Court is a

completely different animal and it's

something that it's such bullshit like

it's like you're a business owner and

you do a lot of deals you wouldn't try

to open up a business in like North

Korea yeah not because you suck at

business and you're quitter but because

North Korea is North Korea and they'll

just cease any sort of property you buy

over there and just take your shit and

tell you to go fuck yourself or shoot

you so it's just it's not worth it

because the the legal climate not

because you're a quitter or you're not

willing to to put in the work and

compete so you know maybe they're

probably arming Tao who they they can't

compete and nothing as the TfL errs or

the in sells who could go Mick Tao

that's the best thing for them

I'd much rather these men find the red

pill go MIG Tao find their own meaning

and purpose and move forward with life


than go i like elliot rodger or whatever

Minassian the cat guy with the van so

yeah because it the thing about these

these in cells who get really bitter and

angry and in terms of violence is

basically they have kind of a male

feminist perspective or they have this

intense sexual entitlement very similar

to wait these fat feminists think that

men need to be attractive to be

attracted to ugly women and it's all

like the patriarchy and body positivity

and it's all burying washing and they

think that they're entitled to higher

status men and they should reasonably be

able to attract there's a lot of men in

the same boat and that's fine but that's

not mgtow that's just men not being

realistic but realistically talking

about men who are unsuccessful with

women anyone with two hundred dollars in

their pocket is not involuntarily

celibate you can get late it's just a

matter of you don't want the pussy that

that $200 is going to buy and that's

fine but don't cry about it because

there's pussy out there you just you

don't want it because it's not worth it

to you that that $200 are worth more to

you than that pussy and that's perfectly

understandable does it make you a loser

I don't buy that I think that men would

rather have pussy than not that's what I

think all right let's wrap it up on that

note because we aim to do these for two

hours and we've had an amazing panel

discussion today so if you guys want to

see the next one there's some questions

in the comments coming up next one is

next Saturday on Anthony's 21 studios

channel you know take a look on the

channel for the start time you think

they do it around 11 a.m. again on this

panel today we've got Donovan Sharpe

from my left Rollo Tomassi from the

rational male Shante Smith from the

tacks back to women clinical

psychologist in Denver and the

incredible circling and monkey who

brought some big hard truth bombs today

on the discussion t FM I want to thank

you for joining us today

it's been amazing even though we don't

agree on on some things

I think you've definitely shed some

light on things and I hope you got

something from joining us as well no

thank you for having me

- Anna pleasure all right and guys if

you're watching this AFM's doing a live

broadcast tonight what time is it 7:00

p.m. 7:00 p.m. Pacific and yeah it's on

Twitch so yeah

/tf monkey subscribed to me there or

check out my YouTube and obviously all

that stuff alright guys thanks very much

we'll see you guys in the next broadcast

baby alright guys thanks guys

English (auto-generated)

Donovan SharpeComment