Why women make false rape claims and how to avoid them (Episode 378)

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what's up guys it's your man Donovan

sharp I just realized literally just

realized that that that entire listen

that entire intro was completely muted

because my dumb ass my dumb ass muted

myself look I'm trying to be all

professional I'm trying to I'm trying to

do a professional show are we just

talking about off air oh my god yeah

listen roll and I were just talking hey

you know we got to step up our studio

game and be more professional and you

know it's interesting before we get into

this a lot of guys you know and don't

get me wrong I'm not saying that you

guys don't know that you guys don't

appreciate this but I listen I love

doing what I do but there's a lot that

goes on behind the scenes man like you

guys see me running my mouth taking

phone calls but there is a lot that

happens behind the scenes there are a

lot of moving parts to what you see on

TSR alive and it's it's taken me quite

some time to sort of get the hang of it

and even listen even now you know the

production takes a long time to

accomplish number one number two even

still I'll still make mistakes like you

know I got this big fancy intro and

muted myself and I'm like okay why is

Rolla on the screen I figured it out

what's going on guys it's room and

Donovan sharp welcome to episode 374 of

TSR live your daily dose of red pill

truth wisdom and awareness we are

brought to you in part by happy hippo

herbals and of course 18:21 man-made

calm for the best beard products in the

game go to 1821 man-made calm to step up

your beard game all right let's go ahead

and get to it man

my guest tonight doesn't need an

introduction he is the godfather of the

manosphere he is rollo tomassi rollo

listen man thanks for making the time

for us today we have an interesting

topic to get into I figured you would

you know how that goes yeah so what

we're going to talk about today Rollo's

we're gonna talk about red pill groupies

now anytime there's a male-dominated

space females wanted right let's this is

this a standard operating procedure this

is nothing new we get it we understand

females want to be a part of they want

to be a part of a thing of cool things

that are going on and

men are doing most of the cool shit they

end up becoming a part they end up

trying to become a part of what's going

on here well we've got we now have an

influx of females into the manosphere we

got a lot of females who call themselves

red pill women and then of course we

have you know these Mogga chicks these

trad cons all of a sudden now that they

see that the men who have their shit

together endorse what we endorsed now

they want to say alright we're red bill

women make America great again I don't

even listen I don't even know if we're

considered to be alright but you get the

idea of course I leave this off by

saying that women try to get in with us

they want to be a part of who we are but

at least in the Redman group we're not

having out I'm definitely not having it

I know red pill guys or I know content

creators who regularly have women on

their show I'm not a part of it I'm not

gonna make it appearance with a woman

because that's just not something I'm

gonna do oh my god Donna being here

afraid no dude I don't want to have to

take Advil throughout the show anyway so

my crowding the where all this started

was when kitten Holliday called into the

Redman group in episode 17 and I didn't

expect her to call in and listen I let

her run her mouth and then you know she

asked if she could say one more thing I

said no you gotta go and hung up on her

and then of course she started this

whole beef with the Redman group what

she wanted to do Rollo is she wanted to

call in and she wanted to impress us

right she wanted to impress us so much

that she wanted to eventually become a

regular caller like hey here's kitten

holiday she's gonna give her thoughts on

whatever we're talking about hey kitten

why don't you become a VIP why don't you

be a VIP guest at the 21 convention now

kitten would deny that this is what she

was trying to do but this is what her

and other women like her try to do why

in the world now here's the thing kitten

holidays not a red column if she's red

pill groupie right so why do women try

to give the impression that they're red

pill women but all they are really is

just hangers or they're just groupies

they're just looking to bang red no guys

I think maybe we need to make a

distinction between groupie and

quote-unquote red pill woman I don't

necessarily believe that there is such a

thing as a red pill woman simply because

once you start discussing red pill

topics and truths and and especially


the ones that are a bit more

unflattering of the feminine once you

start discussing that you're having a

different conversation than for say

someone or like a woman who is like

there because they think that by

agreeing with you or by being your fan

or whatever they think that that's going

to get them in your into your good

graces and I think that really what

we're seeing right now is the mass fear

has become a male space I mean obviously

it's a male space

I have always I mean from the very

beginning I I started my blog based on a

lot of the same rules that I used to go

by when I was a moderator it's on the

Soul Swap forums okay never talked about

I never talked about religion I never

talked about politics I never talked

about them directly okay never talked

about you know we try to abstain I guess

from like personal insults although that

doesn't really work out all the time and

everything else but again trying to

bring that across one of the other

things is that I brought over from from

the from so swab was the idea that I'm

there I'm not against having women

actually comments on my blogs I have

always had a nun moderated blog comment

system unless you spam my my comment

threads or you are a blatant troll who

just keeps repeating things over and

over again pretty much okay with that in

fact I really want people to call in an

April calling I want people to chime in

and disagree with me because that's what

that's how we grow ideas and we have

this commitment I think now in what is

now known as the manosphere as sort of

hashing out ideas and sometimes those

ideas are flattering and sometimes those

ideas are not sometimes when I you know

if people call it and say you know what

your your premise of or your you know

whatever you're talking about when it

comes to hypergamy you're wrong okay

fine tell me why I want explain to me

why I'm wrong I think that when men come

together and they start talking about

stuff like that we're more I mean if

we're if we're arguing and debating in a

an honest way we're more we're more

concerned with coming to terms with what

that idea is and you know and sort of

hashing that out whereas for women it's

how did that idea make them feel and one

of the first complaints that I get when

when I'm talking about things and when a

woman comes into the mix is well I

didn't like the way you delivered that

you're right but exactly it said we

didn't like your tone and it's like well

this isn't your show but this isn't your

you know where you're going to be and so

when when I talk to when we bring in

women you have to understand that the

the conversation changes I have I just

posted it here in the in the chat I have

a great post it was sucked I think it

was also in my second book it's called

male space and in that post I tried to

sort of define how women come into male

space and how they change that male

space right now since we live in a

feminine primary social order

women want to want two things out of

male space people say well why would any

woman want to come into a male male

space and why would they want you

exactly what do we want from you if

you're wrong we're not going to bother

with it well I see a lot of women

wanting to wanting in to the manosphere

right now and this is true not just for

the master but for any quote-unquote

male space right so the first thing is

is that women want to be the first woman

to be included in that male space ah

there we go you if you take something

like if you like you know who Danica

Patrick is right if Erika Patrick wants

to race cars

right she's a NASCAR too right she's in

NASCAR she's well I forget whatever I

don't even know what she's racing in and

it doesn't really matter because nobody

cares about what it is that she does

they care about that she's the first

woman to do that and so she comes in and

she's like okay well NASCAR's of all

male space and I can drive - look guys

I'm one of the guys and you know a woman

can do it just as good as a man can

right there's that see that's the point

that's the purpose of her coming into

that is to prove that she is as good as

any of the other guys which of course is

completely false she's just happens to

be the first woman who

was in there so it's not her trying to

prove how good she is or her dedication

or her passion for driving or passion

for whatever whatever it is that she's

including herself into here it is that

she wants to be the first woman that's

in there so that's that's that's number

one so the number two part is women are

overseers in the locker room

so once women have been allowed into

that male space women take it upon

themselves to now become the overseers

of that male space so once a woman is

welcomed into that you know that it

doesn't matter really what it is like

you can you can say it's it's guys who

are in the gaming community you can say

it's guys we're in a sports team you can

say it's guys what whatever that male

space happens to be once they allow that

woman in there women then decide that

it's no longer about whatever the

express purpose of that group is it's

about how well they accommodate women in

that group now so it becomes less about

whatever this is really easy to describe

in terms of like say the American

workplace or Western workplaces right

now we have accommodated women into the

Western workplace because we feel like

it's the right thing to do okay well we

can talk about that in a whole nother

show but but once they come in there

then whatever it is that those men

collected together to do to have a an

express purpose to do it that woman

comes in and decides that now that she's

the first woman to do it now it should

be not about whatever they came together

to do whatever they came together to

produce whatever they came together to

that they have all have a passion about

it's about include who can be the most

inclusive of women in that group now so

that's why you see we're in when a woman

is in women is added to that all-male

mix the performance of whatever it is

those guys came together to do declines

because they're trying now to appease

whatever the female sensibilities are

within that particular group Walker it

will and that see that there and you

have well let's clean this then you have

guys who want to outshine the other by

being the most Pro feminine Pro

inclusive guy that they possibly can be

and they start policing the thoughts of

the other guys that are within that

group right so if you let's just say for

instance you've got guys who have this

all-male group and like I've said this

before is that men or women talk and men

do when men do they come together to do

something together right they come

together to fix a car to to play on a

field to build a house to you know to do

something that's constructive and to do

something that builds something in their

environment that is so they see the

opportunity within the environment to

build something on that so they come

together as a team and they put it

together right so that's one of the

reasons why male sports with me team

sports tend to be male-dominated because

we can write and we work together as a

team and we want to build something and

we all share that common passion or

ultimately the best that's why you know

like I I'm sure you have hobbies as well

I have hobbies and when I get together

with guys we're usually focusing on that

hobby and then as a result of that we

might communicate or we might become

very good friends it's one of the

reasons like I can make friends with men

very very easy because I have something

that I share with them but what happens

is once you add a woman into that mix

into that male space then like just like

you said guys want to be the guy that is

most inclusive the guy who wants to

prove to her and a white knight and to

bring her into into the fold because not

because she shares that common passion

so much as it is that the guy wants to

to prove to the world that that you know

whatever it is that they do whatever

that organization used to do is now the

organization that does that but we're

more inclusive we have more we have

women here right and what happens is

that dynamic sort sort of decays so

you'll have that group kind of split up

because of that inclusivity or because

we brought a woman into that mix the

guys who have that really solid passion

about whatever it is they came together

to do those guys end up leaving the

group and they go off to do their own

thing whereas the guys who have welcomed

women into that group and brought them

in there and decided that the group's

purpose shouldn't be about whatever it

was that they originally started to do

it should be about including women in

whatever that purpose used to be about

and so ends up becoming their goal or

that their focus on that whereas the

guys who are just together and they're

just about that one that one passionate

purpose those guys will usually end up

and outperform that other that other set

of guys that they were getting a lot of

comments in the chat I'm like at least

two or three guys I've said this kind of

thing happens in the military all the

time another perfect example of that

right right I've had and sports teams is

another thing one of the reasons I

here's a great example as well the Boy

Scouts yes right

yeah sharpness yeah it used to be just

about the boys and now what's what I

find interesting is that in trying to be


now the Girl Scouts are actually suing

the Boy Scouts because they're kind of

infringing on their copyright now or

what because they don't they're what

this was they they have the Boy Scouts

and the Girl Scouts and once the Boy

Scouts said hey we're gonna be inclusive

and we're gonna get more girls into this

whole thing they drop the name boy again

remove the man and they drop the name

and they just call it the scouts well

there are girls in the scouts

so that is a trademark copyright

infringement of the Girl Scouts

registered trademark that's been around

for you know these right so so what's

funny is with all of these same

intentions exactly what I was just

saying right now with all those good

intentions of being inclusive now by

doing that they are risking the the

coherency and of their of their group

and they're going to end up having to

find sea they're gonna have to call it

the Boy Scouts or they're gonna have to

call it something else

it can't be the Scouts because it will

conflict with the Girl Scouts and so in

they're trying to be inclusive they end

up slitting their own wrists and paying

themselves because they wanted to do

that rather than say you know what it's

okay that we have all-male groups it's

okay that we have all of that and I

think it's just recently I think was

this year actually Harvard decided that

they were going to ban all team sex

groups or organizations like

extracurricular organizations on the

campus well what happened was the

feminist groups just flew off the handle

and decide

that you know we need to have these

groups we need to have all-female groups

but we don't want those men to have

their groups right it breaks up the

continuity of the group I talked about

this in my my speech at the 21

convention how the way that feminism and

the feminine imperative disempowers men

is by infiltrating that group

assimilating that group making it not

about men coming together and doing

something but about making it as

inclusive as possible for those way and

that's how they break that up that's how

they why do they do this though like why

is it that women want to break it up I

mean I have my I mean listen I have my

hypothesis but why do you think I well

okay um honestly I think it's because of

the first part okay when women get into

that they want to be like remember

remember when Augusta decided that they

were going to allow women into because

it was an all-male Golf Club and only

Tiger Woods could be in there and what

did they do they went they said oh uh

Condoleezza Rice we'd like you to be a

member of a good play golf on a golf

course it was a symbolic thing to say

hey look you know to prove to the world

that they were actually you know giving

away this are giving up on this whole

boys club thing what the thing is is

women don't give up on the girls club

right men are supposed to give up on the

boys club but women are not supposed to

give up on their own exclusive women

sake that's why we have like these women

in business groups right now they say

well we're gonna get a women in business

come convention going on and we're gonna

all talk about how women can you know

make a better cupcake or some shit like

that right they want to to focus on

helping and empowering women to be small

business owners great okay but nothing

like that for there's no if it was if it

was about equality like I said we would

call it equal ISM rather than feminism

and that's so we have all this special

dispensation for women when it comes to

keeping their own group and keeping a

sexually exclusive group but when men do

that it's sexist and when men do that

it's dangerous and it's an evidence of

toxic masculinity so what I see I think

in the logs if I think in the larger

meta scale of things the reason that

women want to break up that continuity

between men is because it makes men

weaker and that's one of the reasons

like something that like

the 21 convention is so threatening to

the to the female status quo to the to

the what I you know the guy knock recei

if you want to call it that it's

threatening when guys get together just

as guys to talk about things because

they they understand that men coming

together and cooperating together are

way more powerful right when they are

broken up and when they're right so

that's that's issue issue number one the

other issue is okay so if we can define

the manosphere as male space then why is

it that we have women that want to come

into the male space right now so why do

you think I've got a idea of why that is

well why do you think that the

manosphere is so popular amongst we you

want to call them groupies okay call me

I think really more it's you know red

pill women aren't necessarily always

trad cons but they tend to lean that way

of course yeah the reason why I think

that there are two reasons why women

like to infiltrate meal spaces the first

reason I think is the groobie reason

right and I was actually having a

conversation with a consultation client

the other day and he said the one thing

Donovan that you said that really just

blew me away is when is when you were

talking about when you roll oh we're

talking about religion and your fourth

book and he said the one thing that you

said that just blew me away that was

absolutely true is that women don't have

a belief system they don't believe in

God they don't believe that there is no

God they believe in whatever the

strongest men believe right and so the

strongest men nowadays or obviously have

red pill awareness and we are not and

we're not afraid to express our red pill

ness or red pill awareness well Sean

Sean a Tampa as Sean the guitar player

he actually talked to us on the red band

group he said this he said this on my

show several times because you know he

was there with that you know we were

talking about kitten and Jose and our

little dust-up with him and her and he

says listen dude to keep it all the way

it really says women just like to be

look women want to be around guys who

have their shit together right and by

you know when they say they they want to

be around guys who have their shit

together they want to fuck these guys

you know I mean like good like listen

listen man like listen I've got I've had


since the return of Kings days you know

what I mean they're Democrats they're

feminists it doesn't matter what their

belief system is do they see that I am

unabashedly they see that I'm

unabashedly unapologetic about what I

believe it and I don't give a fuck about

anybody's feelings women like to be

around that that's the first reason the

second reason I believe that women like

to infiltrate and subsequently break up

the groups is that they know we're onto

something right like the red pill

community wouldn't be under such

scrutiny if we didn't know what the fuck

we were talking about right if if the

red pill community says we need to

double down on on on feminism you know

you need to take her out to take her out

on dates treat her like a princess even

though she hasn't earned that um you

know forgive her of her sexual past we

need to double down guess what these

bitches wouldn't have a problem with


right they won't have a problem that

because they they know okay well alright

these guys aren't a threat right like

some other like some other guys but they

know that the things we talked about

roll dude they listen to the red man

girl they listen to us are alive deep in

their minds they'll never never admit

this out loud but they say shit these

guys are onto something like the jig is

up like we can't have these guys out

here spilling all of our secrets we

we've had the we have had the we've had

the the gender advantage we've had the

the ratio advantages and we've had the

mental advantage the average 17 year old

girl is at least a decade and a hat and

a half ahead in the game than the

average 17 year old boy right you take

the average listen average

fifteen-year-old girl right average 15

or boy dude she's miles ahead in the


women women keep this advantage

throughout life we're the guys that

point out hey you want to know something

this is not really how it works these

women know that we're on to something

that's that's the second reason why they

I would I would I agree with that I

would also throw out a few other caveats

ago without the other thing I think when

I was just talking about how women need

to be or feel like they need to be the

overseers in the locker room I think

what you have is you have women who want

to be in the manosphere because they see

it as a an itch sexual marketplace they

see these guys who quote-unquote have

their shit together and they want to do

okay but then once they get into once

they hear me once they read me

and they go you know this guy is right

but I don't like what do you know some

of this stuff is unflattering so I can

just get my if I can sort of work my way

into it in there you know work my way

into this male space I can change the

narrative of this space so it's like

they want to get in and then when I say

hey okay hey guys what you're doing is

great we want you to man up when they

all want a better beta okay they all

want you to make the quote-unquote man

up because they love the aspects

particularly the red pill where it's

it's all about self-improvement and it's

all about becoming a better man and then

what they see is they you know Mick

tousle you will will hit me on this but

that what women see is they think that

men are doing this for women they think

that these guys are self improving

because they want to get better with

women or they want to and maybe that's

true in a lot of in the beginning it's

true in the beginning yeah and then you

and then you move into other things

that's the problem is like once you

become more and more red pill aware you

become more sensitive to being able to

to vet women and to to decide whether or

not you want to be part of you know you

want to be part of a woman's sexual

strategy do I really want to fulfill a

role within like hypergamy for for a

particular woman right so when they see

that and they go oh shit they're giving

away the farm they're giving away all of

this information like I had a guy who

and I think I've told you this story

before I had a guy who was one of my

readers and his girlfriend snatched up

my book and grabbed it she says give me

that when the rational male you know she

goes she goes I'll be the judge of that

you know and so she goes and she reads

it for a week and she comes back to the

guy and she takes it she tosses it down

on the desk she goes everything in this

book is true and you shouldn't know any

of it it was and that kind of describes

really what I think that red pill women

have to go through because they want men

to know some of it sure but listen they

want men to know just enough to keep

that advantage over us right but as soon

as listen its knowledge is power

as soon as men now listen there are a

lot of men who are red pill aware

being red pill aware is not enough you

gotta live that red pill life but even

if you have the knowledge and you

actually have the balls to exercise that

red pillow - guess what advantage gone

well and the other thing is yeah exactly

and then the other thing is I think that

once guys become red pill aware I always

tell them to be very very careful about

making their girlfriends or their wives

or the women that they would like to you

know we'd like to Sarge I I tell them be

very careful about revealing what you

know about the red pill because women

want to play the game they don't want to

have somebody tell them about the game

that they're playing right it's true

it's called the observer effect there's

a Hawthorne effect right observing a

process will change that process so if

you start popping off I know exactly

what you're doing right now that's shit

test and 74 irrationally you hit you

know going through and guys want to do

that because they think haha gotcha you

know they do this in the beginning they

won't do that and they think that well

you know women will appreciate that

right though your red pill women oh yeah

you do got me you know but they don't

understand that by doing that they ruin

their game they ruin everything because

now everything becomes about the game

itself I would still guys play with her

and play with her you know I'm saying oh

yes play with her and play with her and

guys you know people don't don't get

that when I emphasize those work but

guys need to if if you think you are

dealing with a red pill woman do not

reveal the game to her don't you know

there's there's a lot of rules that I

have in the other nine iron rules of

Tomasi one of those I think really

should be is do not reveal you what you

know about the red pill to wait to any

woman particularly if you want to be

intimate with that woman at some point

because she's going to think about it

being as part of the game like observing

a process changes the process so if

you're making it obvious to her you know

that's what's gonna how are you gonna

say though so once you have the

manosphere established and once you have

that as a male space women want to get

into that because they want to change

the narrative they want to they want it

to be more about them they want guys to

have 100% responsibility and 0%

authority right when they see red

Hill awareness making men feel as if

they have some Authority or they have

some power over women's hypergamy or

over their sexual strategy or over the

game that they you know partly they can

say you know what I'm not gonna be a

beta in waiting I'm gonna do what I'm

gonna do maybe I'm gonna go my own way

right I'm still gonna say yeah I think

really most guys can't help but go their

own way wants to become red pillow with

how you go about doing that it's really

like the question but so women see this

happening and they go you know what

these guys might select me out they

might go you know what that that chick

who would have that girl with a with you

know a baby daddy and two kids I don't

want to have anything to do with that I

mean rich at rich Cooper and I talk

about this all the time where it's like

stay away from single mommies well that

too for a red pill single mommy

she can't have guys listening to that

she can't have you know women or men

avoiding single mothers in fact so what

happens is then they come into the

narrative they change that around and

they say no really the red pill is about

marrying single mothers and it's about

you know stepping up and taking over the

responsibilities for a guy who didn't

step up you know and they write they

want to build all of that old social

conventions into the red pill and then

they want to decide what is red pill and

what is not red pill and that's why I

lock horns with people like kitten

that's why I lock horns after babe love

okay listen who the hell is dr. babe

love like I just saw her name in the

chat they said she's totally gonna have

no idea who the fuck this bitch is I'll

send you some okay she liked the screen

name already reeks of she on it yeah

exactly she wanted and you're right she

wanted to come into the red pill space

and she wanted to say yeah okay you guys

are all right except for this this this

and this and tell you if you accepted

all this then you would be red pill

right and everything and every article

is some sort of blue pill conditioning

that we had to awaken guys from in the

first place and then you've got purple

pill life coaches saying exactly the

same thing because they know that though

all those comforting ideals of the blue

pill that women want guys to accept are

part of you know they it keeps men sort

of chasing their tails right they think


but they're not really red pill and so

women will pile into that so I also

that's one part the other part is I

think that women see this as a niche

sexual marketplace yes right to me I

don't see too many maybe you can correct

me on this but I don't see too many

younger women who insist on being that

there are red pill women I don't see too

many of the most single mommies they

tend to be or they tend to be divorcees

or and a little bit older okay like well

I'm talking you know past their prime

I'll pass the wall I don't see too many

too hot 22 year olds or 23 year olds

going out my red pill woman they don't

say that it's it's usually women who are

trying to figure out how they can get

into the good graces of men who they

idealize as being a good long-term

prospect and they see red pill men as

being that because part of that red pill

awakening is self-improvement

it's about being a better guy it's about

being the best version or something can

be right but that's where they want it

to end

they they they don't want the red pill

to include all of the unflattering

things yes that that fruits about them

that exactly and so they want to cut it

off right there and that's how red pill

women end up becoming really purple pill

women because they want to redefine that

and unfortunately there are guys who

will get into this and they'll go oh

well you know I want to get into the

good graces of these chicks I haven't

gotten laid or I or maybe they're like

in they're in their 40s and they're

become awakened and they are coming out

of a bad divorce and they want to get

they want to get after it with you know

use up check they want to get after with

with a single mommy and they want to

feel okay they want us to give them

permission to date a single mother

you're never going to get permission

from me today to a single mother dude

listen you'll get permission from me to

bang a single Bob but dating them no let

me point out a concept I've been in the

sales game for a while and area code

five seven one I see in the queue I'm

gonna get you in just a second the the

women want to they want you to play with

them they want to play with you that

concept you were talking about in the

sales game in training class they always

tell you

customers every customer wants to buy

but no customer wants to be sold in

other words when they make when they

make a decision to make a big-ticket

purchase like I've sold cars I've sold

mattresses I've sold $50,000

you know housing project jobs etc etc

they don't want to be sold they want

they want the impression that they made

the decision based on what they thought

no slimy salesperson is ever gonna talk

me in to paying ten thousand dollars for

a mattress or thirty five thousand

dollars for a roof no sir I'm making

this decision on my accord well it's the

same thing with women with women trying

to cut out the good parts trying to cut

out the parts that are unflattering they

don't want to know how the sausage is


right they don't want to know like the

old school mystery method right the rst

method hey you know I mean I mean that

whole P wait listen

that certainly has its agencies now but

I but like I always say girls have the

internet too right they know dude they

can smell the Neil Strauss off of you

they can smell the Tyler Durden on you

right like they can smell that so you

have to become congruent with what

you're saying this is how you this is

how you have the organic presentation of

what's going on if a girl thinks for at

any time that what you are doing is

canned or rehearsed she thinks she's

being manipulated rather than just

inorganic something happening right so

if a girl says oh god she fucked Donovan

yeah oh my god he swept me off my feet

it was like next thing you know we were

having coffee next thing you know I was

in his apartment it was just was there

was nothing I could do but they're not

gonna they're not gonna go to their

girlfriends and say you know what this

guy used this Neil Strauss Strauss

method on me I knew what he was doing

but I said I said fuck it

he's doing a good job I may as well fuck

him that's why they don't want us to do

porn effect observed observing the

process will change that process when

thing about like when you're in you're

in psychology to the one of the reasons

they do blind tests in cycle

psychological experiments is because

once that person knows that they're you

know the the basis of that of that test

or whatever it is that they're going

through they will change the behavior

they that's one of the reasons like when

you ask a woman what do you find

attractive in a man she'll tell you what

she finds attractive in a man / what

seems good like what what are the right

answers here there's a difference

between arousal and attraction so when

you say what is it what do you look for

in a man oh he's got to be funny he's

gotta have a good heart he's got a you

know be like it all these things that

would make for a good long-term match

for her not what arouses her right does

she's saying that because she knows that

she's under surveillance she knows that

girl girls in there or people and within

shouting distance are gonna hear what

she has to say so that it's it's almost

like an advertisement for the right guy

right and so when when women yeah what

you were saying about what they know

they're being sold to if they know

they're being experimented with if they

know if they know that there's being a

game played women want to play the game

they really do and and I kept telling

guys like all the time I was saying well

I don't understand how I can internalize

all of this game you know especially

when it's a script for me well you're

never going to internalize it if you see

it as a script write internalize it as

part of who you are and what your

natural reflects and that takes time and

the other thing longtime or what we're

talking about uh you know here it is we

are in 2018 and we're still talking

about mystery and Neil Strauss where to

put all the stuff that's what

everybody's sort of preconception about

PUA is they think it's you know fuzzy

you know fuzzy hats they think it's like

this you know laser laser Leisure Suit

Larry is what they think right people

need to understand that that pua has

evolved it is so much more it's so it's

so it's not that schmaltzy kind of you


let's go peacock today okay you have a

big ass but one of the reasons I stuck

to say that those those game techniques

didn't work or they don't you know yeah

I heard you talking with them with Carl

from Black Label Logic all that stuff

still works but we have to we have to

understand that the the principle behind

those scripts work for a reason and yes

in take you can still app you can change

up those scripts but they still have to

play on the same reason a same

psychological reason that those things

work so you're not going to go out into

the club's and you're going to see

looking like mr. Ayer unless he's you

know in playing in a band or something

like that

you're not going to see that happen

anymore but it's interesting how critics

love to still use them as well your

little pick up guys you know and yeah

and they and they think in terms of

mystery method you know circa 2002 or

2003 so much different now

all right nine one four two oh five five

three five six is the number to call if

you want to get in on the conversation

let us go to the phone lines area code

five seven one you're on live at Donovan

roll oh go ahead yeah yeah yep okay yeah

I'm the last Red Bank group I've heard

that you're coming to Colorado I would

love to meet you in person like you know

more about your schedule yeah I don't

know exactly when that's going to be but

if you it might be after the New Year it

might be in January I got a lot of after

I had afraid the 21 convention I had a

lot of people hit me up to do things I

got a group in in Colorado I got a group

in San Diego I've got a group in Salt

Lake City of all places a group in

Arizona and they all want me to sort of

make sort of a whirlwind tour through

those places so I will probably be doing

that in the new year

just watch my just watch my website or

my blog or just you know I'll announce

it when when the time comes but I don't

have any set dates for it just yet I'm

also going down to Los Angeles to visit

with Sam Botta with I think middle of

this month too so I'm actually going and

doing a little bit more now so I'll be

I'll be on the road I guess good good

stuff all right you know yeah thanks for

the call area code five seven one I

remember and by the way five seven one

if you're still listening do not come

and ask for his autograph

during breath this is so funny so with

the 21 convention I think you me and

Devin I think we had breakfast together

I think like three like three street

mornings or whatever we just happen to

be at the same table at the same time

whatever great and so on two different

occasions like it happened on

consecutive mornings guys like Yolo can


to design this book and roll is like

yeah can I finish my can I finish my

bacon great oh that was great all right

listen I'm you know I'm just plus tennis

balls about that you listenin roll roll

was a fantastic guy and I'll bend over

backwards to give you of course ya

personal right you know signature

whatever absolutely all right let's go

back to the phone lines Eric OOP I just

hung up on him I'm sorry

area code five one oh definitely call

back I totally just hung upon you my bad

let me ask you now we talked about dr.

babe love we talked about we've talked

about kitten holiday clear I don't know

anything about dr. babel abut kitten

holidays she's she's a groupie right

what do you think of this Brandon Jones

and a few other people want to know

about the CLC book reviews now she made

an appearance in my chat either what's

today Tuesday she made it appear to my

chat yesterday and I told her right out

the gate

hey listen CLC like listen like if

you're a woman I don't need to see or

hear you right and she you know she

heated me right but she seems to be

making the rounds she actually called

into the red mad girl I I don't

necessarily have a problem with I think

if you want to be in some way inclusive

I'm not like against having women in

this mail space it's just that

understand that this is the mail space

and understand that we are going to be

the authorities in this mail space and

we are going to come together and talk

about this kind of stuff and we're going

to come to conclusions that are going to

be unflattering about female the female

psyche and female nature especially like

there's there's a lot of stuff like if I

talk about hypergamy women will agree

with that more or less because they have

pretty much embraced it and embraced

open hypergamy now they don't want to

talk about the the more the harsher

realities of that they want to sort of

sugarcoat that thing but then for the

most part that will agree with that but

then if I say something about all women

are are solipsistic and here are the

here are the reasons why I say that

here's that here's the the studies and

the evolutionary psychology and the

premise behind that if you want to talk

to me about that fine but women don't

want to talk about that because they

think that because

haven't figured this stuff out that it

is now our duty to use our super powers

for good forth of for the purpose of

women and for the purpose of creating

families and for the purpose of you know

making things a better place so they're

like okay you got us yes there is such a

thing as hypergamy yes there is such

thing as female self sysm yes all that

everything you say in this book is true

and you shouldn't know any of it but you

do know it so now it's your duty as a

man to use this for the benefit of

humankind Ortiz really oh really like

you say stuff like that women want to

then come in and take over the narrative

so if you want to be a woman in a red

pill space if you want your opinions to

be heard you need to sit down and listen

to men's reasoning and you need to do so

from a rational perspective rather than

an emotional perspective because women

when and I've written about this before

in the past all human beings have

interpretive processes so when when we

have a new stimuli in our environment we

first process it through the instinctual

okay how is this you know do I need to

run from this or do I need to fight

fight this thing do I need to do

something in the most immediate sense

right now do I need to put my body in

front of the bullets that's instinct

okay then there is emotion and how does

that stimuli make you feel right because

emotion is is it is an evolved aspect of

our psyche and who we are it's not some

magical you know

woowoo spiritual shit you know I feel

like this well you know what that's

because that stimuli has made you feel

that way and so like if it's if it

triggers testosterone or triggers

oxytocin if it triggers you know fire

adrenaline if it triggers that and you

feel that it's because that stimuli is

going through your instinctual and it's

making you feel something so if I go and

like guys one of the reasons why guys go

through roid rage is because you're

fucking with your hormones right with

your you're messing with you know

something that's want to make you feel

in a certain way like

we spiked oxytocin we'd all feel good

and loving and everything you know so

you can you can change the way that you

feel through biological means so don't

say don't the mistake is to think of it

in terms of you know whoo whoo magical

shit and then the next process is the

rational process and that's where we

take into consideration what this what

is this stimuli mean to us and how can

we use that how can we solve a problem

with that now women tend to prioritize

emotion above reason men is the opposite

they pretend to prioritize reason above

emote okay and the only times that went

that men tend men get into these

situations when you say well that guy is

having an emotional response yes he is

because he's been trained to put emotion

as something that is as in a in a

priority order that that supersedes his

ration his rationality okay so when a

guy when when you see a kid like Nicolas

Cruise goes and his girlfriend dumps him

and he wants to kill kill the war you

know kill all the people who look like

her new boyfriend Matt the remote

response because he's been taught that

he's supposed to go to the emotional

rather than the rational because he has

not had a man in a positive masculine

role to teach him not to go and take out

a gun and shoot up his school okay so

he's having that emotional response but

it's because he's being taught to go do

that too way we said we we raise boys as

if they're defective girls so the

opposite works for for women so women

tend to feel before they think men tend

to think before they feel okay and so

what happens is when women come into the

to the manosphere they come into that

male space they come in as feelers like

they think well this he said something

about solipsistic know then it's and

that's one of the reasons why women say

I didn't like your tone well because you

didn't like my tone is what I was saying

made you feel something because the

information and what I was relating made

you feel that way and and so you're

taking where you may never never do they

have a counter-argument to anything that

I'm saying they just

made me feel bad you know well I'm sorry

but the facts is the facts right and so

that I think defines the manosphere is

that this this idea that we're a

marketplace of ideas where guys coming

together it is a distinctly male space

and women want to come into that and

they come in and they feel bad because

Marilla said something about solid

system or Rollo said something about

hypergamy Rollo said that women are

innately you know XY or Z and they that

makes them feel bad and so they want to

bring into that and so what they want to

do is they want to redefine the red pill

so that it doesn't make them feel bad

right and so the real red pill is how

women define it right and so I've seen

this especially on trad cons because try

cons jump in on this because the the

traditional conservative mindset sort of

locks in with the way that you know with

embracing the red pill up to a point

embracing it so up to the point where it

doesn't make women feel bad or bracing

red pill up to the point where it is

conducive to creating families and it's

conducive to all this social you know

stuff that gets attached to that and so

women jump into that's one of the

reasons I think that the women who want

to be called quote-unquote red pill

women are almost I mean uniquely trad


and I think that's something that we

really kind of need to to discuss is why

is it that it is so appealing to track

on women as opposed to women who are

just like screw and I'm gonna go to

Coachella and fuck whoever I want hey by

the way and ribono has called Becky my

bad five what I'm gonna get to you in

just two seconds before I go to five oh

no and then six one nine it's

interesting that it's interesting that

you point out the fact that women say

okay we're all about these

self-improvement it's etc.etc right but

then you should use your powers for good

oh really like from the age of 18 to 32

you use your powers for good

you read young and had children right

like you never fight you you haven't

fucked over 38 different guys and fucked

a hundred and seventy-four guys like so

we're supposed to use our powers for

good now that you are too young to have

a choice which is why I tell guys when

they get later on in life and women are

thirty eight forty years old and they're

looking for you know that mr. right that

they didn't get before I tell guys you

are you are merely oh it wasn't me I got

it this is a Roy C quote is you are

merely alpha agents of righteous karma

so at that point you have to be you have

to be red pill aware and game aware

enough to know what that woman has done

probably to get up to that point where

she is in life and the decisions that

she made and do not absolve her of her

decisions women it I think the if

there's one red pill aspect a red pill

truth that I think that men need to

cling to is they need to say you know

what now you know I see right there

you've got the pro you've got preventive

medicine right there if you've got that

time line in front of you and you've got

a 38 year old woman who is childless

never married and is pretending to be a

marriage counselor I would be very wary

of whatever it is that she's saying

simply because what it took for her over

the you know the course of her lifetime

to get to where she is men need to be

aware of that and they need to say you

know what I'm not gonna reward that I'm

not gonna absolve that I'm not gonna

forgive that I'm not a you know I'm not

gonna serve my past indiscretions I was

so crazy in college great you were crazy

in college I don't wanna have anything

to do with you okay

because now the tables have turned this

whole thing when we were talking about

the thought audit all these guys all

these guys were pissed off and they were

pissed off and they wanted to have some

sort of some way of retaliation against

women who essentially have a sort of a

control over them because they have the

sexuality that they thirsty betas want

to have that mean they're not making

fifteen sixteen seventy thousand dollars

a year because guys aren't paying the

money you know then they'll go off to

Aruba and then you know Instagram shots

saying oh a stupid man paid for this

right yeah I can understand why those

guys why insel guys would be very pissed

off about that

tables turn when those women get to be

35 37 years old and you know what it's

your duty as an alpha agent of righteous

karma now to reward her for all us all

the shit that she had done to get up to

that point and say oh like when I talk

about the epiphany phase I tell them


you know I tell guys that say you know

what think about where that that woman

has been what are the decisions that

she's made is she a single mommy those

are decisions that she made are you

ready to absolve those decisions and say

that's cool don't worry I'll take care

of that guys kids for you are you ready

to say that and nobody wants to say that

because that's a that's a tough pill to

swallow man because I'm giving reality

I'm getting giving doses of reality of

these guys and women don't want that

they don't want to say you know what I'm

a single mother and I'm a bad bet I'm a

bad bet for the future for this guy

because he you know I've already made my


so you know I need to find a beta in

waiting who's going to forgive all of

that right ohm and so what are we gonna

do we're gonna pretend that that guy is

a better man because he did that and so

what along comes Rolo and he says you

know what

once you know your value your intrinsic

value particularly when you get to your

sexual market value peak gentlemen

then that becomes a threat to them and

that's why they hate me that's why I

hate you that's why it's not what it's

not like Who I am so much as its what

I'm saying is the information I'm

putting out there and they hate that

because it is counter to what it is that

they need men to believe nine 109 109

one for two oh five five three five six

let's go to the phone lines area code

five one zero you're on with Donovan

irrelevant since I have you on the line

I will say one thing I think the best

way to disseminate rental information is

using comedians like Patrice O'Neal yes

one of my favorite essays of Rollo is a

mental point of origin and Patrice

O'Neal got a good joke about that he

tells his girl this is a list of

important importance in his life he's

like first it's myself then my career

then my mother then you and he's like

you better watch out because my sister

the close fifth my portable number five

and there's tons of other similar jokes


you know not just mental point of origin

you know but other topic that Rolla

writes about I think if you know you can

make the people laugh

yeah if you can make people laugh you

can make them see the truth like even

even women and Patrice's crowd they

laugh and kind of shrug their shoulders

like yeah he's kind of right hmm do you

know um an asian asian comedian there's

gonna say there's just a key under the

dude's name but it's this asian comedian

called takara or something like that

he's really good in a red pill

perspective I can't I'll post it on my

my Twitter I can't remember his name for

the life of me I know who he is do ya go

ahead caller sometimes I will share

rational males writing essays with my

gut friends and I get a lot of pushback

to the point where you know even

fractured a couple of friendship you

know I guess what I'm gonna do is no no

no that's okay I'm not gonna cut you off

I'm actually going to I'm actually gonna

just put you back in the queue so that

you can continue to listen thank you

yeah no problem

all right let's go to area code six one

nine you're on live but thought of an

enroll oh go ahead

hey good so I've got all your three

blocks listen to you Donovan on a

consistent basis I'm gonna join your

patreon pretty soon

I've got a question for ya both of you

guys here here's my scenario single

mother but she her kid doesn't live with

her it's the 25th she's 23 hills so kids

out of the house she's 45 I'm 40 I

understand the whole thing about you

know why she's going out with a younger

guy I have no kids just a relationship

she's got a hysterectomy so she can't

get pregnant because I don't want to

have a kid and the thing is that

the way the way the for me it's a

comment it's a great time is there and I

know you guys always say stay away for

single mothers is there something there

that I'm not seeing just on what I'm

telling you I don't know no no no no

check this out

I know enroll oh you can chime in on

this too but it's not that we say now I

would I've never endorsed saying stay

away from single mothers no no no no

single mothers have great utility they

are easy targets they are good for sex

because they are good at fucking dude

single mothers will keep your balls

dream because they're good at fucking

they made a bunch of babies they're good

at fucking they're gonna get fuck don't

get into a relationship with her don't

catch feelings for her that's a bad bet

listen if you have a harem of 17 single

moms by all means do you single moms are

only good for fucking that's it the only

exception is if maybe there's a split

custody agreement like one week on and

one week off even then they're gonna

they're gonna be some tendencies that

you're gonna have to break through what

do you think all right first off the

question you need to be asking yourself

is why are you with a woman who is 45

years old and you're 40 how are you are

you divorced or are you have always just

been single I'm just single and the

reason why I'm with a 45 year old is

because I'm just kind of looking not to

take anything too serious

and it was just more of like she's she's

working under my frame and that meant

that she kind of works with my schedule

with my work so of course she does she's

45 years old you wanna you want to talk

about a power dynamic that shift you

know the further a woman gets away from

like say 35 years old going up the the

lower the value ends up being and I'm

talking about sexual market value I'm

not talking about your personal worth

ladies but I think that the first thing

you need to do is decide why it is that

you're putting this one up to the top of

your list are you seeing other women at

the same time or is this the only one

you're seeing this one right now just

because I don't want to I don't want to

have I got

much going on oh no no no we're all our

color listen that's a bad excuse you

want to know why no you're making

excuses listen don't take this

personally but listen listen no you're

serious enough about this woman that you

have called up Donovan sharp and Rollo

Tomassi about advice about her right you

already know what to do I think maybe

what you're looking for and really can

correct me if I'm wrong here's maybe

you're looking for permission to only

fuck her

which means you're kind of sort of

dating her exclusively how many nights a

week do you guys spend together okay all

right all right

assuming you're telling the truth you're

probably doing it right but again like

oh listen somebody just said in the chat

plate her don't date her don't make

anything official and you and again

here's what you need to do I don't give

a shit if you're working 16 hours a week

you got to start fucking somebody else

because irregardless of what red pill

knowledge you have or the sexual market

discrepancy there is the beat between

you two the longer you keep fucking one

person the more the more likely it is

that you're gonna catch feelings for her

dude listen I'm the great donovan sharp

even when I had my Vegas high rise at

the Soho Rollo you know exactly where

the fuck that is right I'm up to my

eyeballs and stripper and cuss and

strippers and cocaine

I Drive three cars I've got an Audi

fully paid for life is great all of a

sudden I meet an eight and I start

fucking her everybody else goes off to

the side I'm a red pill Donovan I'm

right for eternity Kings I'm doing a

podcast guess what I caught feelings

right why because she's the only one I'm

fucking dude you got to start fucking

somebody else because if you don't

you're gonna fuck around and catch

feelings for a 45 year old woman you

have no business catchin feelings for

and when you do it's a wrap let me ask

you this did you have a did you have a

girlfriend before her I did okay would

you call okay would you call yourself a

serial monogamist I like to know from

growth when you'd welcome dude Ingram in

exfoliant yes he said yes he admitted it

you know

that's and the reason that I asked that

is because that is usually what you're

doing right now is a sign of a serial

monogamist you you exclude even just the

idea of spinning multiple plates simply

because it doesn't for some guys I guess

it just doesn't really feel right

there's there's a theory called sexual

pluralism or strategic pluralism for

guys and it's the guys who have kind of

a lower sexual market value it is in

their best interest to put all of their

eggs in one basket and to focus on that

one woman and then there is the other

20% of men who you know have the leisure

I guess because of their looks or

whatever their status happens to be that

they can date non-exclusively and so it

behooves them or their reproductive

strategy to spread the seed right

because that is the male imperative

which is unlimited access to unlimited

sexuality well I doesn't mean all guys

do that but I think that what you

probably fit into is this other category

of guys who feels like they need to put

all of their eggs in one basket and put

all of their energies into it's what I

call a sniper mentality you have to just

sort of wait out for your one chance

with your with that one girl and then

you go from it's almost like monkey

branching for for guys it's like well I

can't go out with anybody until I'm done

with this chick right you know and you

have to make up these kind of moralistic

rationalizations as to why you don't

want to date not exclusive evarin and in

fact it would behoove you did probably

do that I see a lot of guys who could

who could do that who actually they

learn game or they've got read their rip

Hill where and they still they still

stick to this idea of well and one man

one girl blah blah blah because probably

because they've been brought up that way

or maybe they had some sort of religious

reasons for that or simply they have

only ever been productive with women in

a monogamous situation I would suggest

spinning more plates I think what you

ought to do and then you want some

advice here some advice for you I'm

gonna tell you to just dump this chick

but I think you owe it to yourself to

date other chicks you need to go out

there and you need to to put yourself in

the market date women who are

younger than 45 years old dead woman who

is 35 years old okay you got one that's

five years older than you go fine just

simply five years younger than you try

that out see what the differences are

between a woman's 35 no more Musa 45 see

the difference between a woman who has

had a hysterectomy or whatever she's had

and a woman who hasn't look at sync and

you right now a 45 year old woman has

every reason or every incentive in the

world to to you know fuck you seven ways

from Tuesday because she wants to keep

you in the loop because she knows in

five more years she's gonna be 50 years

old listen think about that yeah in fact

I would say at 45 she's almost Perry

Menem listen check this out now we know

you know what's up in five years this

woman is going to be 50 you're gonna be

45 gonna be right smack dab in the

middle he'll be 45 so exactly so at when

I mean do you do you want this to be

some long-term thing or do you want it

to be okay well then if that's the case

then you I went to yourself to do

exactly what I said which is date women

that are younger than you and don't date

single mothers if you can avoid it at

all I know that it's hard to do when

you're 40 some-odd years old because

every girl that you meet at that point

has probably been through one marriage

and probably has like kids is either a

single mother or it's a divorcee or

something I get that I understand that

it's tough to do that and that's why I

don't like I don't break guy's balls for

for going and dating women who are like

you know 36 years old I mean to go

younger at the very least go younger but

I was going out with multiple girls

before her I was going out with a 28

year old I was when I was a 35 year old

the thing is that a lot of these other

ones they're kind of fucked up in the

head let me let me let me let me stop

you right there listen I understand I

understand that it is a better life to

be fucking one woman than to be fucking

3i listen do trust me this is why I'm in

the position why I'm in the situation

I'm in now right I ought grew the

biggest nightlife but again you're

making it

excuses to be exclusive with a 45 year

old woman I dated 28 year-old and 35

year old women and they had a slew of

issues you don't think this 45 year old

woman has issues - and guess what she's

even better

she's even better at hiding those issues

you listen man listen keep fucking her

but you gotta start fucking other chicks

I'm telling you right now if you don't

you're gonna fuck around and catch

feelings and if you do I'm telling you

right now it is a wrap halation yeah all

right we got other callers here code 6 4


you are on live with Donovan enroll Oh

hopefully the woman you are fucking is

younger than 45 yes yeah my name is John

so my question is regarding your

previously mentioned you know some of

these women on Twitter trad cons we we

should be careful or skeptical of their

strategy right they talk about the

traditional roles and gender roles and

although we have to be skeptical of that

my question is in regards to some Muslim

women so there are a lot of Muslim woman

we talk about you know all of those

gender roles which are traditionally

associated with them for example they

say that they will stay at home after

marriage they're gonna have kids you

know those sort of thing how skeptical

should beƶ these women and we know for

example you know if you know that these

women they were they grew up in a

society or in a culture in a household

where her father implemented those

traditional rules should we still

descriptive all of these women or or can

we believe them so I know that we should

be looking at how they act rather than

what they say but at what point do we

have to kind of take that leap of faith

that this woman seems with additional

compared to you know other woman let me

ask you this yeah let me ask you this

so is does this Muslim girl I guess

Muslim Oni are talking about

are they on social media she's not

around okay is she on Twitter okay but

she's on Facebook okay

she talked about the fact that she is

traditional on Facebook yeah yeah stop

right there stop right there stop right

there stop right there stop her there be

skeptical of course you're gonna be

skeptical listen if she's a Muslim woman

and she really is traditional why does

she have to tell everyone that she is

traditional number one number two is

this Muslim girl was she raised in

America or was she raised in another

country so she when she was like 14 or

15 years old but before that she should

have chose she's an Arab she's a Middle

Eastern woman so so how old is she now

she's spending she's 26

oh yeah dude be skeptical man you can't

make coming up on a she's coming up on

the epiphany phase I believe it is this

Muslim girl a virgin I think so

I think you know listen listen listen

hold on hold on listen I'm gonna give

you the answer to your question right

girl say all the time if a guy gets on

his meat gets on one meat what you

should never do and propose us to you

will you marry me girls say to other

girls if you don't know you know right

like if you're not sure that you want to

marry the guy you know you don't want to

marry the guy if you don't know whether

or not this Muslim girl is a virgin

after moving here at 14 years old now

she's 26 and she's not married yet if

you don't know she's a virgin you know

right like again listen she might be I

don't know in terms of quality you'll

have to figure it out but you're gonna

have to understand this girl is not a

virgin number one number two she's been

infected by feminism right so maybe

she's a little bit further ahead but the

fact that she's 26 and has all of these

qualities and she's a Muslim woman and

traditional dude if that were the case

bitch you'll be coming up on your vibe

you'd be coming up on your five six year

seven year wedding anniversary mmm what

do you think relevance oh yeah well I'll

try to make this as brief as possible

well as you probably already are aware

I'm writing a book on the red pill and

religion right now and this is one thing

that comes up quite a bit in the in the

discussions I have with with Muslim men

what about what about Muslim women what

about it doesn't even have to be Muslim

it could be like traditional

conservative Christian women it can be

you know anyone who's kind of like

Orthodox in some way well shouldn't we

believe them shouldn't we be you know

shouldn't we be looking out for them

isn't it a good thing for women to have

this this you know idea that they want

to follow along with traditional

conservative or conventional gender

roles and I'm not saying that that's not

God fact I there's a lot of we you know

about traditional conservatives and I

think is a good idea and I understand

why women want that but the thing is is

why does that woman want that why is she

pushing that as an agenda right now

whereas maybe before she wasn't right so

is is it an idea that women remain

virgins is it a good idea that women

want to save themselves from marriage is

it a good idea for you know for women to

be more to want to stay at home and to

you know take care of the kids yes that

is great stuff okay but who's saying

this is it a 22 year old girl who you

know is you know going to college or

something right now or is it a woman who

is 28 years old and meat knows she needs

to get off the carousel and she knows

that this is the kind of life she kind

of would like to have if she could find

the right quote-unquote red pill guy

right you want to talk about why try red

the red pill and red pill men is so

attractive to track on women it's

because up to a point men have this

awareness that they want to you know

they want to sort of live in this ideal

world where where men are men and women

are women right they they they like that

idea they like men Manning up and taking

on responsibilities they just don't like

the idea of men having authority over

them but what he's talking about right

here is there used to be checks and

balances for for hypergamy okay because

what does it boil down to what does what

why would a woman in why is it a good

idea for a woman to remain a virgin well

you know the fewer partners a woman has

the more she's able to have you know

solid healthy attachments in a

relationship we see that statistically

right now so Wow

lo and behold the the you know the

scholars of the ancients - you know who

said hey maybe it's a good idea that we

don't all have sex with each other

before marriage

yeah there's reasons for that realistic

that is in this day and age I don't know

but we used to have checks and balances

society used to be a check of balance

you know when a woman had a child out of


that used to be scandalous you know in

the back of the boat if a woman had a

kid you know God forbid she's like a

teenage mom like she's like 16 years old

he send the woman away or the girl away

to have the kid and put it up for

adoption and then you know cuz it's

bringing shame on the family and then

you would have religion and you couldn't

have sex with your wife and tell your

you were married and all of this other

stuff that were checks and balances

against both the male sexual strategy

and the female sexual strategy and what

we've done now is we've unfettered

hypergamy from all of that

so now unfortunately I have to doubt

those things I have to doubt when a

woman says I would traditional

conservative and I believe in

traditional values and I you know I'm a

trad con women you know Mogga whatever I

have to look at that and I have to take

that with a grain of salt because I look

at that now and I say where is this

woman in her maturity cycle how many

kids has she already had how old how old

is she is she in her epiphany phase and

I'm looking at all of these factors

inside why as a woman why is that a

priority for her at 28 when it wasn't a

priority for her when she was 22 well

because she was in her sexual market

value peak and she could enjoy that now

she sees that she's has to cash out of

the sexual marketplace with a guy and

the guy that she wants to get with is

the dude who respects traditional

conservative you know conventional

gender roles so is she doing that as

sort of to be expedient you know that

that's what she wants and now she's had

her cake and she wants to eat it to you

in the long term and have a guy who's

who's gonna you know who's gonna man up

and take care of responsibilities and do

all this shit that she probably didn't

have as much respect for when she was 22

and having sex with guys in the foam

cannon party in Cancun on spring break

right so I have to be you have to be

careful about that so I think

particularly in Muslim societies right

now I'm glad you brought up the fact

that you know is she living in a Western

culture because a lot of guys will


Muslim guys say not the women in my

culture women they have respect for men

and we have a different way than you

guys you losers in Western society and

while that might be true to a point then

I see like a country like Saudi Arabia

saying oh it's okay if women owned

businesses oh now it's okay that women

go drive around now it's okay that women

do this or now it's okay that won't you

know where you have with the women in in

Iraq who are taking the hijab off and

then you know flossing and dancing

around doing all this Western stuff but

they you know suddenly all of those

repressed oppressed Muslim women in

those countries don't seem quite so

oppressed anymore they don't seem quite

so you know held back as we've been led

to believe so I think that is it a good

thing for for women to be traditionally

conservative yes but you got to look at

the reasons why they suddenly want to be

true yeah this actually reminds me of a

story actually that I saw the other main

I see haricots 347 on the line and if

you guys look this up it's actually look

up the Holly Fisher story it's probably

not a story that's been talked about is

actually on the Daily Mail a while ago

anyway it was a she was a traditional

trad con right love God guns rock and

roll and I'm a you know I'm a

conservative and you know my husband's a

military veteran and bla bla bla bla bla

and I make liberal heads explode bla bla

bla bla bla guess what she listened she

was happily married and it's not the

other that's what she ended up dude she

ended up fucking somebody else she ended

up having an affair right and if you go

to the article there's all sorts of

hamstrung I've been married since I was

20 and the husband was away and I lost

my faith in God bla bla bla bla bla know

what ended up happening is that she met

an alpha dude that she wanted she met an

alpha dude that she wanted to fuck she

made an alpha dude that she wanted that

she needed a fuck this is how this is

doesn't matter how TRADD con you are

hypergamy and female nature Trump's all

I'll actually put the I'll actually put

the link in the chat right now it's

funny um I was actually thinking about I

was actually thinking about that the

other day only gets too long so you guys

are just gonna have to look it up Daily

Mail Holly Fisher let's go back to the

phone lines last phone call it the

evening area code three four seven

you're on live with Donovan

are you doing guys

good I've been following you guys on

Twitter for a long time already I

identified with the red pill before I

even know what it was when I started

reading all these books and all these

tweets so my question for you guys will

be kind of kind of a bit of a topic so I

have this friend of mine which we're not

I would say like a co-worker it's not

really a friend of mine and we'd gone

out a few times

and I feel like he's women be all over

me man

and and I feel bad for the dude because

he's willing to her how can I deal with

this in the best way how can I let him

know it without heard of his feelings oh

I know this but I had this problem

before in the way I handled it it was in

the right way so I want to see you guys

got any tips so let me get this straight

there's somebody that's going to talk to

me about the girl what's going on with

her all right

okay and we went we went out a couple of

times and I feel like she's a little bit

too fresh you know like this basically

being times when you know and she's been

rubbing on me one that what if and this

is your way hold on hold on all the way

wait so your girl so your homeboys girl

is rubbing up on you okay all right so

this is a co-worker so so does the girl

work with you guys or does she is she

outside of work no no yes I thought it

was the one that works for me the guy

yeah dude you get listen man here's the

thing dude here's what I would do if I

were you

we always say don't fuck your coworkers

right well guess what this extends

outside award right right but don't fuck

your co-workers wives or girlfriends

dude like listen man listen and I know

she's rubbing up on you and it's very

very difficult to turn down it's very

very difficult to turn down when a

woman's just thrown pussy at you but

let's just say you fucked this girl

right does she know that you does she

know that you work with her boyfriend

uh yeah yeah dude if she fucks you she's

got you by the balls right so let's say

you're fucking her for two or three

weeks and all of a sudden you start to

try to ghost on her what's she gonna do

she's gonna say you know what if you

don't think fucking with if you don't if

you don't keep fucking me I'm gonna tell

him and then there's gonna be problems

at work

now if if this girl is worth losing your

job over fine you know listen pull them

panties down and let the good times roll

but my guess is that one piece of pussy

is not worth losing your job how how

does shoot how does she relate to the

boyfriend when you guys are when you're

around what is her attitude towards him

when you are going out together

well pretty cool pretty like they get

along great but whenever he gets a

chance to talk to me alone they she

start complaining about him and you know

like I'm tryna like I've done that

before I I think the mistake of fucking

the girl when she was throwing on me and

it was a friend of mine action listen

because I lost the friendship and you

know I mean became a headache I'm not

trying to go down that route again oh

yeah I I understand that I just want to

get a little bit better understanding of

the relationship between like you and

the guy that what does she complain

about when she complains about and what

is she saying from him being lazy from

him not being said to like him not

performing the way he's supposed to

performing bed she that's when I know

like okay so she's talking about sexual

stuff with you about the Melissa I'm

just making sure I needed to make sure

I'm glad you asked him that because I

was making sure because here's the thing

man a lot of guys get this mixed up and

I'll get back to this guy in just a

second when a girl complaints to you oh

god my guy is too fat yeah you know he's

not fucking me the way I want him to

okay you probably have a chance to fuck

her right but if she talks about oh my

god he's such an asshole he talks about

his you know his ex-girlfriend's are

hitting on him all the time dude that is

a one-way ticket to the fucking friend

zone but it doesn't it doesn't sound it

doesn't sound like that's what's going

on it really does sound like you could

fuck this girl if you wanted to that

sounds to me like she

is using him as sort of the beta and

using you as the alpha like she sees you

as a sexual lot she sees you as a sexual

opportunity and especially if she's you

know broadcasting her sexual

availability to be by way of complaining

about the other guy I mean I think you

probably already know that it's there I

mean the the offers on the table pretty

much if you want it but the reason I

asked all this is because I kind of want

to use you as a as an educational you

know example here for everybody else is

like there's I mean does that does the

guy think does the other guy does a

boyfriend to think that like she's all

about him does he get any is he does he

get any clue like what's going on with

her at the beginning he he did but then

little by little when she started doing

all these things you know I've been

telling him like yo hey be careful

don't give you a hundred percent you

know just explore your options or you

know maybe he's falling for her because

she's beautiful I'm not gonna lie she's


alright alright well I the only reason

I'm asking that is because I think that

a lot of guys get into a situation where

particularly with beta guys who are

really kind of option 'less and get into

this scarcity mentality you know and

that happens a lot especially if the

girl is really hot because guys think oh

I'll never get a girl as hot as this

chick again and then that's where it

sort of slides back into her frame

because he becomes more necessitous than

she does and so for her to be hitting on

you like that especially I'm fairly

certain that he's probably picking up on

this but he don't want to believe it you

know what he wants to convince himself

that that everything's cool but I don't

know maybe he's maybe he does maybe he

doesn't but I think it's interesting to

see that here's the strategy though you

have a woman who's already you know

quote-unquote committed to one guy who

is not you know not everything that she

wants and yet she's still cleaner this

dude at the same time she's flirting

with you so I mean that what does that

tell you about women's sexual strategy

yeah exactly and to be honest he's

keeping it all the way or I would I

would okay here's here's here's the

advice here's the advice I would say

like excuse yourself from this whole

situation and just keep spinning plates

only I mean if she here's what I think's

gonna happen though anyways she'll

probably end up breaking up with the

boyfriend and then she'll come around

and try to try to hit on you or try to

come back and you know cuz she's

probably gonna see you as the sure thing

sexually so it wouldn't surprise me if

she broke up and if that's the case let

her let her make that choice because

first of all it puts you into the solid

frame if she leaves him and comes into

your frame and then you have really

super solid frame with her but make her

just one more of your plates just make

her like don't treat her anything any

more special just say hey look I'm not

exclusive if you want to get with me

fine that's great but make sure that

it's after she's already kind of broken

up with this guy and then if you want

turn her a no plate good shit man thanks

for the call area code 347 yo the fact

that he listen I know it's hard for this

guy because he said she was yummy I've

never heard net boys that yo she's

yelling you look at him like wow there's

gotta you gotta ask the right questions

I mean when I see sit like I've been

working okay when I people know mine my

day job is my day job is I've been

working in alcohol for probably less

gosh what 12 15 years now and I see I'm

out in the field and people want to say

well how does Rolla know all this stuff

about you know he's not out there he's

been married for 22 years you don't know

what I do for a living I'm out there

like like Jane Goodall and gorillas in

the mist man I'm watching the behavior

happen right Donnie I'm Dian Fossey of

the red pill right I'm out there

watching what whites from what these

guys are doing I'm seeing people from as

young as say 21 all the way up to their

60s and 70s and I see how a guy can tell

you when a guy has game and when a guy

doesn't have game I can tell you one of

chick is into a guy and is not I would

probably be the single best wingman you

would ever have if you were out there

because I could I could pretty much

accurately read what what men and women


at any particular time particularly with

the the whatever environment they're in

people gave me so much shit about the I

have an essay called body language right

and it's what we're I'm sort of

analyzing pretty much the same thing

like Dave Navarro 19r Joe Navarro does

and he has this he has got a great book

called the dictionary of body language

and I would suggest anybody who's in the

game or you want to get into like the

real PUA today pick up that pick up that

that book is called the the dictionary

of body language

but anyways when I'm seeing this stuff

it comes from like years of experience

so when I hear something like this I

think okay

what's the guy about what's this other

guy about how hot is a chick how old are

they how long they've been dating do you

know what are the vibe that you get from

this guy and you just have to ask the

right questions because the the behavior

usually is pretty formulaic yeah I'll

tell you what it sounds this is it's

funny because we talk all the time about

girls who bram swing and we always just

say yeah girls gonna branch swing she's

gonna make sure that she has a branch in

her hand securely before letting go of

the other that's what this was dude this

dude was the other branch he's saying

himself listen I work with this guy his

girlfriend complaints to me she's

throwing the pussy at me what should I


dude she wants out but she's not gonna

get out until she no just like you said

sexual certainty a sexual you know

sexual wants a sure things and guys hey

guys do this too okay God and like the

guy we were talking about who's dating

the 45 year old man he wants the sure

thing that's why you stick with that

shit it's like you most men when it

comes to the when it comes to me that

can most uh most men being in the 80% of

you know 80th percentile they don't want

to waste their time with stuff that's

not going to work so when you see a guy

who's like oh yeah I'm all about fat

chicks you know I love that I love a fat

chick no you don't you don't because you

know that a fat chick is an easier lay

than a chick who is hotter because

there's more involved in you going and

getting that guys will be like I like

older women you know I have a thing for

older women no you don't you have a

thing for younger women you the reason

you have a quote-unquote pref

rents for a 45 year old woman is because

it's easier okay because the path the

the pathway from point A to point B is a

whole lot easier than having to do

something else right and so I would I

would just leave it with the guys here

is I think that if you have a preference

or if you have if you think you find

yourself falling into like these

repetitive dating habits such as serial

monogamy why do you do that well you do

that because it's a sure thing you think

that it's a sure thing

and so why do you go for single mommies

they're a sure thing they want to get


why do you go for 45 year old women

they're sure thing you keep coming back

to the same watering hole because

there's water in a watering hole too

last topics here the the phone lines are


I can't believe been on the air for

almost an hour to half do this it goes

quick going back to what we talked about

in the beginning is yes when men find

the red pill do 99.9 percent of the time

it's because of a woman sexual

frustration or heartbreak and when we

ingest red pill truth it's all about

okay never been good with women I want

to take advantage of women for a change

you learn about the red pill you start

fucking a bunch of women but the funny

thing happens on the way to this player

for life status you begin to figure out

that you know what I don't really need

to pursue women women are gonna pursue

women will pursue me and I'll pursue

them but they're not the end-all be-all

there's so many other constructive

things I can be doing with my life then

chasing pussy all day right listen it's

great but when you really do but when

when when the red pill really starts to

sink in you begin to figure out that

that having access to high quality

beautiful women is merely a side effect

of living the red pill life they're the

reason you found the red pill in the

first place but then they b-but but

they're the main reason you you live the

red pill life but then they become I

don't know secondary probably even

probably even further back um one last

thing I wanted to say you said if you

know the process of changes the process

and a lot of guys like to brag well

that's hypergamy I know that's branch

swinging and all this other kind of

stuff listen man

Devon knows all the red pill stuff that

listen this makes it very very I can't

be incongruent right Xin I know what she

knows that I know that she knows she was

at the 21 convention she knows all about

this stuff right we meant you she met

all the guys she dude she's read all of

my post she watches most of my shows she

built my web site so when Devon gets out

of pocket she knows some cuz she knows

consciously she is shit testing me and

she knows consciously that I am passing

the shit tests right

only because Devon knows about the red

pill this is one of the reasons why I'm

able to keep my red pill edge because I

know she knows what listen she and my

soul is there it's it's all there she

knows what I do and why I do it she

knows what she doesn't why she does it

so give me your thoughts as we as we

close out the show why it's why it's

important out my situation with Devon is

very unique I'm not saying that you

should open your woman up to the red

pill and she'll fall in line no the

reason why

Devon falls in because I'm fucking

donovan sharp that's why right like she

listen she knows that she knows that you

know that she's peered behind the

curtain guess what that really is the

winner of fucking us like the man you

see on the screen that's the same

motherfucker behind the curtain she

knows and understands that but for the

but for the rest of you guys who aren't

doing podcasts you're not you know

you're not writing you're not at the 21

convinced you're not a red pill guy

you're a red pill consumer rather than a

purveyor why do you think it's important

for guys not to run their mouths about

the red pill to their women and their

friends well because first off it's too

much information because it it I'm sure

you've heard this before and this is a

pickup artist like tenet I guess never

always try to be a challenge right

always try to be oh I hate to use this

analogy but be an onion you know you

have to peel away that you know like I'm

using a Shrek example here you have to

be an onion you have to be something

that you can sort of get put what I call

breadcrumbs okay you have to give just

enough of yourself for her to want to

follow along into the into the state

that you want her to be in you want to

be a challenge you want to be a mystery

you want to have some sort of some cut

something about you that keeps that

woman coming back to learn that much

more about you there's nothing that is

more satisfying to a woman's you know

mythical sense of female intuition than

to think that she's figured you out by

using that intuition and if you can keep

that indignation going and you can keep

that dread going and you can keep that

competition anxiety going by by staying

as much of a mystery as you can or by

doing something out of pocket or doing

something that's that's not in your

behavior so one of the reasons that when

one of the reasons of why marriages

stagnate is because guys get predictable

yes and so you know tomorrow I might say

hey I'm gonna go learn in fact I was

just thinking about this I want to go

learn how to weld right I want to learn

how to be a welder there no not being

welder what I want to do is creatively

right so just out of the blue I'll say

hey you know what I'm thinking about

thinking about taking some classes in

welding did this come from you know you

know I don't understand oh you know

where this is you know she doesn't

create a creative person but it's just

something I'm thinking out loud kind of

thing or maybe I'll go and do something

sort of out of character or I'll start a

new hobby or something like that or

maybe I'll start a new training program

or new diet or what you know whatever

else but there's there's simple things

that guys can do that sort of takes them

out of that predictability because once

you get into that predictability then

women have control over you they know

what you're gonna say before you're

saying it one classic mistake that blue

pill guys make when they're on a date

assuming they can get a date is when

they get on to a date they spill their

guts out on the the restaurant table

they're like oh when I was eight years

old my mom did this and then I was you

know so I graduated from high school and

then I went to college and then instead

you blurt out as much of them of

themselves as they possibly can because

they've been taught this idea that open

communication and and you know just

being as expressman as emotional as

possible and and being as ah I'm an

honest person and they think that that's

gonna be appreciated by women and it's

not appreciated by women women want to

discover you they want to know they want

the book of you page by page not like

here it is you know they don't want the

cliff notes to your life they

want to be able to figure you out as you

go along and so you've got to give them

breadcrumbs and you've got to be

confident enough to understand that if

if a woman is even in your realm of

possibility of ever being something

exclusive that you have to have that

frame and that's that's another thing

that's how you build frame that's how

you build that world that she wants to

be a part of that she wants to to insert

herself into you know is the same thing

we were just talking about you know male

space you have every guy has his own

kind of personal male space is that male

space something that a woman wants to be

a part of and get into is if you can say

yes and you got you know you've got the

history to prove it great good for you

but most guys don't have that and the

reason they don't is because they

believe in this idea that this and they

got to be totally honest and I'll leave

you with this is women always say that

they want honesty but they never want

full disclosure okay they always say

they want honesty but they never want

full disclosure and the reason I say

that is because they still want you to

be you know upfront with them but they

don't want you to feed it to them all at

once they don't want you to throw the

whole book at them all at once they

don't want to they don't want to know

the your life story right you know on

the first date they need to be able to

figure you out and there's nothing that

is more entertaining and there's nothing

that's more intriguing I think that's

the word I'm looking for if there's

nothing more intriguing about a guy that

a woman has to sort of pick apart and

she know she she's you got to be that

guy that she goes to her girlfriends and

says she says I can't figure this guy

out but I got to figure him out I can't

figure him out but I got to figure him

out right and so you keep that girl sort

of in the enraptured with with your

story that's why one of the things that

pickup artists always say is don't give

her everything in fact make her talk

about herself more than you talk about

yourself because the less you give to

her the more she gets to fill in the

blanks with her imagination well there's

nothing more useful in a pickup art or

getting your game tool chest than a

woman's imagination so she needs to be

able to imagine things of you and that's

what keeps her engaged that's what keeps

her enthralled in the story of you yes

discovery Trump's disclosure you said it

as women want to discover

they don't want you to tell them they

want to be wooed by you they don't want

to know that you got your technique I I

also get this with this question a lot

too because I've been married for 22

years and people say well doesn't mrs.

Tomasi already know all of your tricks

doesn't she know all this stuff you know

remember my book came out

yes but here's the thing heaven knows

that this is who I am this is why this

is why well and then I also play with I

know my wife well enough that I can play

with her and I can play with her and I

and here's this is a law of power never

teach your students all of your tricks

never teach anyone so much that you can

be replaced that's Robert green right

there that is from the 48 laws of power

never teach your students so much that

you can be replaced

never give up those tricks so are there

things in my book that I'm that I do I

am I giving it all away now I'm not

giving it all the way you know I I have

some you know I've got three I got three

great books that people can sort of dig

into and and you know grab the knowledge

and apply it to their to their lives but

is there more yes there is there

certainly is like I'm still figuring out

some of it too right and that's the

glass of beauty of the red pills I'm

still you know people gonna say well

aren't you running out of things to

write about no I'm not running I'm not

because I'm constantly being challenged

by this stuff and I'm constantly

reconsidering things I reconsider stuff

that I wrote back in 2002 am going way


listen Rollo it's been a pleasure man

this is every show we do better man it

really does we answered some questions

we kept it 100 with all the callers you

guys can follow Rollo on Twitter at

rational mail I think you're on Facebook

too now right I'm not on Facebook just

yet but I will be I am I have a the

rational male is on Facebook and the one

that's on there is run by Sam Botta he's

the guy who reads my book so he takes

care of my facebook my the rational male

side of things I don't have a persona

for Rollo Tomassi on facebook's I've

never really seen the importance of it

but I think I'm probably going to do it

soon I'm on Instagram I always forget

that I don't use it that much I use it

okay I guess I

if you like dog pictures I don't like if

you like if you're if you're a fan of

greyhounds and snowmobiling follow me on

instagram all mine Instagram at rational

male obviously go to the rational male

calm of course he is the author of the

revolutionary book series the rational

male obviously you guys know where to

find me great show you're in on the red

man group for Saturday correct yes yeah

what are we talking about look I think

we're still up in the air about that but

I think we've got it nailed down to like

two or three topics we'll discuss it in

you'd thank you for listening to TSR

alive I will be back on the air tomorrow

at the regular time 5:00 p.m. Eastern 2

p.m. Pacific I will have Steve the Dean

Williams on to discuss well sex dolls

eventually remember that's gonna be a

good one thank you all for listening and

we'll see you tomorrow

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